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Their complaint is not with Livejournal, who are simply being gutless in the way that any major corporation is going to be gutless. Their complaint is with various aspects of intellectual property and/or copyright law and how, in everyday life, those aspects end up being exercised. And that anger should be directed productively, which is to say at changing those laws. Kvetching about Livejournal is a waste of time.

Well said.

LJ being dicks? Leave. Simple. I am.

Don’t like the laws and “laws” they are touting? See MGK’s post above. Change it.

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mynn — I don’t know if leaving LJ would change anything, but I’m sure there are other (and maybe better) ways to fight it or, rather, get the message across. When it all comes down to it, LJ is it’s own business, it can do nearly what it wants to, legally. But it has it’s limits. I suggest we push those limits.

I agree 100% – they are being dicks. I take the lower moral route by being a dick back (ie. letter writing and general loud-mouthery) rather than leaving.

I like my livejournal too much to let livejournal take me down. If that makes any sense.

Love the Star Wars, hate the Lucas. Yes? I’m appropriately nerdy for my day thus far.

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Aardy R. DeVarque said on August 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

As I recall, LJ_Abuse is always looking for more volunteers. Rather than working at coming up with new ways to make life hellish for the rank & file working the customer support desk (and turning what’s naturally a difficult job on the best of days into a real meatgrinder), perhaps there’s a way for those who are staying there to effect change from within–“be the change you wish to see in the world”, as it were.

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Quinctia said on August 8th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

I just wish they’d say “no porn” and be done with it. I don’t like porn, all the ridiculous whiners would leave, and the reasonable people would accept it and move on. They certainly don’t NEED to host ANY.

I don’t like the idea of permanently suspending an account (with no previous violations) on account of an ambiguous image. Since there was indeterminate age, that seems to me like the textbook example of when to warn, remove, and reinstate and flag the account. If it’s not ambiguous, go all gung-ho, by all means.

…I’ll admit I’m biased on the pro-ana thing, because I was a member of anti-ana for years, just trying to get the word out about the communities being harmful. My problem is by policing content as far as to permanently banning ambiguous borderline cases who’ve given no problem in the past, I think they are opening themselves up to criticism. Since they’re talking about harmful content, and what they choose to host, I don’t think that it’s out of line to be required to check in on the content of those communities. Maybe not permabanning pro-ana, but by laying down the line on what’s allowed in terms of posts. And being more mindful of cyber-stalking, and harrassment, and things that cause harm.

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Aardy, you just cited the problem:

Volunteers. 6A is a corp. It should act like one. It should hire a team for its abuse department, pay them, and then enforce.

As for the pro-anorexia community? They’re not going for social acceptance. They’re saying anorexia isn’t a disorder, it’s a lifestyle. And when you’ve got a woman over 6 feet tall at 105 pounds, and people are encouraging her to not eat, that’s not encouraging social acceptance or bolstering self esteem. That’s assisted suicide. Which last I checked the law — is illegal.

Nobody’s making things more hellish for LJ/6A. They made it that way for themselves. Because, see, the hue and cry against pro-anorexia communities and hate communities and abuse and drug communities, and genuine pedophile journals and stalker journals has been going on for years; –years– before the first strikethrough thing happened in May.

And LJ has been historically, until May, been saying, “sorry, free speech, nothing we can do,” to stuff that was in violation of their pre-Strikethrough TOS [which is the same as their post-Strikethrough TOS because they won’t update the TOS after announcing the changes and the so called clarifications].

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Indi– the thing is, the women on the pro-ana groups would argue that they aren’t seeking advice on how to kill themselves or commit suicide… they’re just trying to lose weight. *rollseyes* Unfortunately, that means that it’s a lot harder to pin them down.

Quinctia– It isn’t as simple as “no porn.” They’re apparently quite happy to host adult porn, as long as it’s clearly adult porn and it’s kept in over-18 communities that are locked and moderated to prevent the under-18 set from showing up. Similarly, it isn’t as simple as “no fan art” or “no fanfic.” People keep trying to pin them down with generalizations, and it just isn’t that simple. There’s tons of debate as to whether ponderosa121’s Harry/Snape image was clearly of an over-18 Harry. Without context, one has to guess. To me, just in looking at the image, he could have been anywhere from 15 to 21+.

One thing that continues to bother me is that people keep bringing up Romeo and Juliet, or Buffyverse scenarios… and just Not Getting The Point. It’s fine to talk about sex. It’s fine to describe the fact that people or characters are having underage sex. What isn’t okay is the point where it’s become graphic. Nobody can point to any episode of Buffy where viewers were shown anyone’s genitals, much less shown those genitals in action. Ditto your average R&J performance. You might see two naked people getting out of bed, but you aren’t seeing them actually have sex, sheets-off, close-up enough to where you can see their naughty bits. (Yes, I’m sure there’s some wacky R&J porn out there. I’m talking about the actual text, the usual stage performances, and the usual film performances which are generally using over-18 actors anyway.)

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And when you’ve got a woman over 6 feet tall at 105 pounds, and people are encouraging her to not eat, that’s not encouraging social acceptance or bolstering self esteem. That’s assisted suicide.

And that’s your opinion, Indigo. I happen to share it, but take that to court and you’ll have a tough time of it, precisely because “people on the internet are telling her to do things to herself that are probably bad for her” is shitty causation. They’re not forcing these girls down on the floor and preventing them from eating – they’re powerless to do anything without the participant’s consent and cooperation.

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[…] for being what they called a “serial copyright offender”.  He explains the situation here and personally, I’d just make a little banner letting people know that you’re on his […]

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So I guess that means no more Improved Archie, anywhere? Man, that sucks. I really enjoyed the comm and it was a great idea. Guess it was fun while it lasted.

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