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	<title>Comments on: The Environmental Case For Eating (Some) Meat</title>
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	<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/</link>
	<description>Christopher Bird writes about things.</description>
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		<title>By: Mightygodking.com &#187; Post Topic &#187; Send Me To London, Guys!</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-21801</link>
		<dc:creator>Mightygodking.com &#187; Post Topic &#187; Send Me To London, Guys!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-21801</guid>
		<description>[...] suggest including in your nomination a link to one of my more &#8220;respectable&#8221; posts. Like this post about environment stuff, or this one about nuclear power, or this one about airships, or this one [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] suggest including in your nomination a link to one of my more &#8220;respectable&#8221; posts. Like this post about environment stuff, or this one about nuclear power, or this one about airships, or this one [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19734</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19734</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;m a little late to this party, but saying the only options are either cow/pig/sheep manure or petroleum-based fertilizers is a false dichotomy.

I regularly compost vegetable scraps to use as a soil amendment in my garden. I would hazard a guess that if all the spoiled or otherwise wasted food landfilled(estimated at somewhere around 100 billion pounds of food annually in the US) were composted instead, it would provide plenty of fertilizer.

You are also overlooking the potential for reusing human manure as fertilizer. If it were sourced separated from everything else that goes into the sewage stream and then composted, it would be an excellent soil amendment.

The argument about using cow manure as a soil amendment only really makes sense if you&#039;re already committed to eating meat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m a little late to this party, but saying the only options are either cow/pig/sheep manure or petroleum-based fertilizers is a false dichotomy.</p>
<p>I regularly compost vegetable scraps to use as a soil amendment in my garden. I would hazard a guess that if all the spoiled or otherwise wasted food landfilled(estimated at somewhere around 100 billion pounds of food annually in the US) were composted instead, it would provide plenty of fertilizer.</p>
<p>You are also overlooking the potential for reusing human manure as fertilizer. If it were sourced separated from everything else that goes into the sewage stream and then composted, it would be an excellent soil amendment.</p>
<p>The argument about using cow manure as a soil amendment only really makes sense if you&#8217;re already committed to eating meat.</p>
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		<title>By: sgt pepper</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19274</link>
		<dc:creator>sgt pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19274</guid>
		<description>Or instead of rewarding the free range meat famer (my dad&#039;s a free range meat farmer, by the way, and that designation does not exclude him from feeding grains to his animals) you can reward the local vegetable grower instead.  You&#039;d be creating less of a market for meat and fewer animals would be produced to be treated badly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or instead of rewarding the free range meat famer (my dad&#8217;s a free range meat farmer, by the way, and that designation does not exclude him from feeding grains to his animals) you can reward the local vegetable grower instead.  You&#8217;d be creating less of a market for meat and fewer animals would be produced to be treated badly.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19263</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19263</guid>
		<description>I am just happy that my addiction to PB&amp;J sandwiches now means I am a fucking awesome environmentalist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just happy that my addiction to PB&amp;J sandwiches now means I am a fucking awesome environmentalist.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Brown</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19260</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19260</guid>
		<description>Actually forget that last link; having a second look at it, it doesn&#039;t explain very many of the problems.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.free-range-turkey.com/wst_page3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This one&lt;/a&gt; explains it better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually forget that last link; having a second look at it, it doesn&#8217;t explain very many of the problems.  <a href="http://www.free-range-turkey.com/wst_page3.html" rel="nofollow">This one</a> explains it better.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Brown</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19259</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19259</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Dude, if you’re not being sarcastic, I feel REALLY sorry for you right now.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sure he&#039;s joking.  As for me, I just say no to any form of liver and always have.

&lt;blockquote&gt;And dolphins. Dolphins are bastards...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow, they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;really are!&lt;/a&gt;

To clear up an apparent contradiction in what I said yesterday, I&#039;m currently not buying any meat free range or otherwise (unless you count wild caught salmon as rewarding somebody who doesn&#039;t farm animals).  But when I said MGK made a good point about buying meat from animals that had been treated ethically in order to give people an incentive to treat them ethically I &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; think it was a good point.

I mean, I&#039;m buying eggs from free run hens these days (different from free range hens; both can run around and roost and so forth, but free run birds are kept inside they&#039;re raised in one of those provinces where it&#039;s too cold to keep them outside).  Costs a little more, but I hope that I&#039;m sending a message, and I am getting a decent amount of protein from them.  I bring that up because I contacted this animal rights group before I started buying the eggs and asked whether the chickens were really all right or whether President&#039;s Choice was just making that claim, was told not to worry, and that was good enough for me.  So if I learned that a particular seller of free range turkey was treating the birds decently instead of, say, like &lt;a href=&quot;http://kazez.blogspot.com/2007/11/free-range-turkey.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what&#039;s described here&lt;/a&gt;, I&#039;d want to buy some.  Not just because turkey is good but because I&#039;d want to reward the producer like MGK said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Dude, if you’re not being sarcastic, I feel REALLY sorry for you right now.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;s joking.  As for me, I just say no to any form of liver and always have.</p>
<blockquote><p>And dolphins. Dolphins are bastards&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, they <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html" rel="nofollow">really are!</a></p>
<p>To clear up an apparent contradiction in what I said yesterday, I&#8217;m currently not buying any meat free range or otherwise (unless you count wild caught salmon as rewarding somebody who doesn&#8217;t farm animals).  But when I said MGK made a good point about buying meat from animals that had been treated ethically in order to give people an incentive to treat them ethically I <i>did</i> think it was a good point.</p>
<p>I mean, I&#8217;m buying eggs from free run hens these days (different from free range hens; both can run around and roost and so forth, but free run birds are kept inside they&#8217;re raised in one of those provinces where it&#8217;s too cold to keep them outside).  Costs a little more, but I hope that I&#8217;m sending a message, and I am getting a decent amount of protein from them.  I bring that up because I contacted this animal rights group before I started buying the eggs and asked whether the chickens were really all right or whether President&#8217;s Choice was just making that claim, was told not to worry, and that was good enough for me.  So if I learned that a particular seller of free range turkey was treating the birds decently instead of, say, like <a href="http://kazez.blogspot.com/2007/11/free-range-turkey.html" rel="nofollow">what&#8217;s described here</a>, I&#8217;d want to buy some.  Not just because turkey is good but because I&#8217;d want to reward the producer like MGK said.</p>
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		<title>By: leapetra</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19247</link>
		<dc:creator>leapetra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19247</guid>
		<description>Vegetarianism can be just as unhealthy if you do not know how to eat healthy.  When we tried it for over a year.  It was great on the pocketbook. But you can still make unhealthy meals.  We found out when we looked back, our favorite meals had so much sauces in them that the sodium content was worse than processed foods.
We never thought about that as we ate our beans and tofu.  I developed a soy allergy, my husband gets hit with high blood pressure.  And we could not go full vegetarian anymore.  We tried.
The good thing about the year eating that way, is the reintroduction of basic foods that get over looked (barley, Irish oats, cabbages, turnips, etc.) , or trying new vegetables.  Reducing our meat consumption.   Finding out the farmers market is an awesome place to shop.  So it was not a failure, it did open our eyes.
Now we eat meat more like a flavoring, except on special occasions.  I still like cooking and eating beans, I just cannot have any thing with soy in it.  For us it&#039;s more important to reduce the amount of fat and sodium. 
As for the Local food argument, if you live in an area that can support you with enough local foods, go for it!  The problem is a lot of the family farms are gone now.  I grew up in Wisconsin, the dairy state, yet by the time I was a kid, most of the dairy farmers around me had stopped farming.  They were now working for the large corporate farms.  So if I still lived there, local food would be hard to do.  You could do it, if you liked turkey, because that&#039;s what most of the farmers turned their old farm steads over to.  I live in Central New York now. Local food is a lot easier to find here.  It helps to have a major regional chain of grocery stores promote local foods as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vegetarianism can be just as unhealthy if you do not know how to eat healthy.  When we tried it for over a year.  It was great on the pocketbook. But you can still make unhealthy meals.  We found out when we looked back, our favorite meals had so much sauces in them that the sodium content was worse than processed foods.<br />
We never thought about that as we ate our beans and tofu.  I developed a soy allergy, my husband gets hit with high blood pressure.  And we could not go full vegetarian anymore.  We tried.<br />
The good thing about the year eating that way, is the reintroduction of basic foods that get over looked (barley, Irish oats, cabbages, turnips, etc.) , or trying new vegetables.  Reducing our meat consumption.   Finding out the farmers market is an awesome place to shop.  So it was not a failure, it did open our eyes.<br />
Now we eat meat more like a flavoring, except on special occasions.  I still like cooking and eating beans, I just cannot have any thing with soy in it.  For us it&#8217;s more important to reduce the amount of fat and sodium.<br />
As for the Local food argument, if you live in an area that can support you with enough local foods, go for it!  The problem is a lot of the family farms are gone now.  I grew up in Wisconsin, the dairy state, yet by the time I was a kid, most of the dairy farmers around me had stopped farming.  They were now working for the large corporate farms.  So if I still lived there, local food would be hard to do.  You could do it, if you liked turkey, because that&#8217;s what most of the farmers turned their old farm steads over to.  I live in Central New York now. Local food is a lot easier to find here.  It helps to have a major regional chain of grocery stores promote local foods as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Smurf</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19244</link>
		<dc:creator>Smurf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 06:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19244</guid>
		<description>Most things that I do are in pursuit of a more sustainable lifestyle.

You can say that everyone should just *reduce* their consumption and yes, I definitely agree, but people are lazy fucks. My vegetarian urban hippie lifestyle balances out that of one SUV-driving dude who correlates eating a giant steak with his dick size.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most things that I do are in pursuit of a more sustainable lifestyle.</p>
<p>You can say that everyone should just *reduce* their consumption and yes, I definitely agree, but people are lazy fucks. My vegetarian urban hippie lifestyle balances out that of one SUV-driving dude who correlates eating a giant steak with his dick size.</p>
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		<title>By: Aardy R. DeVarque</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19240</link>
		<dc:creator>Aardy R. DeVarque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19240</guid>
		<description>Of course, when it comes to turning plant matter (particularly grains) into animal matter, herbivores are much more efficient at that than omnivores or carnivores.

(Unless, of course, you have a pollution-belching factory process it into &quot;Ano-Wheets&quot; first...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, when it comes to turning plant matter (particularly grains) into animal matter, herbivores are much more efficient at that than omnivores or carnivores.</p>
<p>(Unless, of course, you have a pollution-belching factory process it into &#8220;Ano-Wheets&#8221; first&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: sgt pepper</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19239</link>
		<dc:creator>sgt pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19239</guid>
		<description>That should be &quot;fed to livestock&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should be &#8220;fed to livestock&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: sgt pepper</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19238</link>
		<dc:creator>sgt pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19238</guid>
		<description>Is manure necessary for growing crops?  I&#039;m really not sure.  Wouldn&#039;t compost, nitrogen fixing crops, and crop rotation also work well to replenish the soil?  Is there some reason why these wouldn&#039;t work for mass plant farming (and anyway, if we&#039;re shooting for a future of small farms like you suggested, this question is irrelevant).  

And I&#039;m pretty sure those synthetic fertilizers you mention are used largely on corn and soybeans to increase yields (which creates a paradox--the farmers need to buy those chemicals to produce enough bushels to make a profit, but the more bushels they produce, the greater the supply and the lower the price they can demand for the product).  At any rate, my point is that those fertilizers are only &quot;necessary&quot; for a culture that demands the cheapest foods possible, and that the corn and soybeans those fertilizers are used on are fed livestock--so it&#039;s the demand for cheap meat that drives the &quot;need&quot; for synthetic fertilizers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is manure necessary for growing crops?  I&#8217;m really not sure.  Wouldn&#8217;t compost, nitrogen fixing crops, and crop rotation also work well to replenish the soil?  Is there some reason why these wouldn&#8217;t work for mass plant farming (and anyway, if we&#8217;re shooting for a future of small farms like you suggested, this question is irrelevant).  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m pretty sure those synthetic fertilizers you mention are used largely on corn and soybeans to increase yields (which creates a paradox&#8211;the farmers need to buy those chemicals to produce enough bushels to make a profit, but the more bushels they produce, the greater the supply and the lower the price they can demand for the product).  At any rate, my point is that those fertilizers are only &#8220;necessary&#8221; for a culture that demands the cheapest foods possible, and that the corn and soybeans those fertilizers are used on are fed livestock&#8211;so it&#8217;s the demand for cheap meat that drives the &#8220;need&#8221; for synthetic fertilizers.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19235</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19235</guid>
		<description>Yah, cruel or not, fois gras is damn tasty and an end that totally justifies the means, if you ask me.  &gt;.&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yah, cruel or not, fois gras is damn tasty and an end that totally justifies the means, if you ask me.  &gt;.&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Bitsy</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19234</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19234</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...mass plant farming requires fertilizer to come from somewhere, and if it’s not coming from animals (IE, “organic fertilizer”), it has to come from artificial fertilizer, which not incidentally demands the consumption of a great deal of fossil fuels in its production. &lt;/i&gt;

This.  This right here.  Very well put.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;mass plant farming requires fertilizer to come from somewhere, and if it’s not coming from animals (IE, “organic fertilizer”), it has to come from artificial fertilizer, which not incidentally demands the consumption of a great deal of fossil fuels in its production. </i></p>
<p>This.  This right here.  Very well put.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew W</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19233</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19233</guid>
		<description>No need to feel sorry for me. Foie gras is really, &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need to feel sorry for me. Foie gras is really, <i>really</i> good.</p>
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		<title>By: Skemono</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-19232</link>
		<dc:creator>Skemono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/01/18/the-environmental-case-for-eating-some-meat/#comment-19232</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;you know, I’ve had people argue that cows would totally drop bombs on each other if they had the ability to, but I just don’t see it. Cats, though - I can believe that cats would be capable of genocide.&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
And dolphins.  &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.cracked.com/article_15853_6-cutest-animals-that-can-still-destroy-you.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dolphins are bastards&lt;/A&gt;:
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;Thirteen-foot male Bottlenose Dolphins were hunting down porpoises, beating to death and then playing with their corpses, all for no readily apparent reason. At the time of this writing, the majority opinion of the marine science community was that this breathtakingly savage interspecies homicide is for--and this is Science, here--shits &#039;n&#039; giggles.&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>you know, I’ve had people argue that cows would totally drop bombs on each other if they had the ability to, but I just don’t see it. Cats, though &#8211; I can believe that cats would be capable of genocide.</p></blockquote>
<p>And dolphins.  <a HREF="http://www.cracked.com/article_15853_6-cutest-animals-that-can-still-destroy-you.html" rel="nofollow">Dolphins are bastards</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Thirteen-foot male Bottlenose Dolphins were hunting down porpoises, beating to death and then playing with their corpses, all for no readily apparent reason. At the time of this writing, the majority opinion of the marine science community was that this breathtakingly savage interspecies homicide is for&#8211;and this is Science, here&#8211;shits &#8216;n&#8217; giggles.</p></blockquote>
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