Comments on: On the role of museums in superhero fiction…

By: Mightygodking.com » Post Topic » Threecret Identity

Mightygodking.com » Post Topic » Threecret Identity — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:33:39 +0000

[...] Last week, I mentioned something about Batman and Superman’s secret identities, and that I would talk about them if anyone was interested. Well, I recall at least two “yes” votes. That is really all it takes. To be frank, I wanted to do it anyway as long as no one actively said BOO THIS IS A SUBJECT ABOUT WHICH I DO NOT WISH TO READ. But let me preface this with two things. -I can’t claim the ideas I’m going to talk about are totally new or innovative, especially because I’ll cite existing sources of the characterizations in action. -I also can’t claim my take is the “right” way to handle Superman and Batman’s secret identities. There is no right way; these characters are 70 years old, so diverse and contradictory interpretations are valid and inevitable. I’m just saying this is the way I prefer to think about it, and you might dig it as well. So here goes: Superman and Batman do not have dual identities. They have triple identities. See, during Batman Begins I always think Rachel’s being unfair in that bit at the end where she touches Bruce’s face and says, “This is your mask,” the idea being that Batman has become the “real” personality, and the Bruce Wayne persona is an act. This is a popular characterization of the Bruce/Batman split, and I used to buy into it as well. But then who is that sharing jokes with Alfred, and who is that talking to Rachel at that very moment? It’s not the public “drunken playboy” persona that Bruce has cultivated, but it’s not Batman, either. Bruce doesn’t talk in his gravelly “intimidation voice” to Alfred or Rachel or Ra’s al Ghul (and thank goodness for that). Heck, this is a guy who talks about Batman in the third person (”Batman has no limits,” not “I have no limits”). The Dark Knight is as much a role, then, as the drunken playboy. The real guy isn’t Public Bruce or Batman, it’s Secret Bruce. In the JLA trade paperback of “Rock of Ages,” there’s bios of all the Justice Leaguers, and I absolutely adore this fragment of the one Morrison wrote for Batman (or at least I assume he wrote it, because it sounds like him, and it’s somewhat in opposition to DC’s official treatment of Batman at the time): [...]

By: Krinn DNZ

Krinn DNZ — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:06:13 +0000

I really, really want to try and fit this into the theories from Generations now.

By: Sofa King

Sofa King — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:03:48 +0000

@norabombay
I’d be amazed if buried somewhere in Starman there wasn’t a reference to them making a Starman museum.

Part of it might also be the larger impact and recognition the DC heroes enjoy in their universe, whereas very few heroes in Marvel are liked by the average taxpayer. Others have mentioned it, but you’re more likely to shell out money for Superman when he saves the world than if Spiderman stopped that guy with the mechanical legs or something that one time or so I heard.

It’s like I always say: DC is top down, Marvel is bottom up. It’s Superman and the world or the world vs. Spider-man.

By: Bah

Bah — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:22:17 +0000

Actually, there was one scene in Waid/Weiringo’s first issue on FF that shows Reed and Sue in a museum that’s displaying some large-scale supervillain memorabilia. Of course, the fact that Waid worked so famously with the Flash might have influenced that decision…

By: norabombay

norabombay — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:48:14 +0000

All this does is remind me of the 1990′s era run of Starman. Which was entirely about being a legacy superhero.

Jack Knight was the 1990′s Starman. His father was the golden age Starman. His older brother was the ill fated 1970′s Starman, dying in costume.

Jack Knight ran an antique shop, selling the cool mid century modern stuff that was his fathers era (1). He had a baby with a supervillian, leading to the kind of custody battle.

The entire comic was a long rumination on fathers, sons, history and legacy.

Needless to say it was DC.

Had this been a Marvel comic?

Actually, the bit with the supervillian custody fight might have been the same. But the rest?

(1) In the mid 1990′s mid century modern furniture and fashion was still cool and exotic. Honest.

In the late 2009? Jack Knight would be a hipster with his own show on TLC. Rachel Zoe would be the supervillian baby mamma.

By: Mary Warner

Mary Warner — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:29:13 +0000

When the Masters of Evil took over Avengers Mansion, they found the Porcupine’s armour on display, and they complained about how sick it was to display something like that as a trophy.
There didn’t seem to be any other trophies around, though.

By: Suz

Suz — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 07:13:09 +0000

I would agree with the comments that say it’s a legacy thing.

For all the DC keeps on trying it’s best to destroy it’s long history, it still has generations of heroes (at least I think it still does, I’m a few crises behind) stretching back decades.

Marvel, on the other hand, seems to drag it’s history along with it like a snail. My understanding it that everything is supposed to still be first generation, right? Except things that take place in the future. Or something. I’m not up on their history so I could be wrong I guess.

But I remember Peter David making light of it on the last issue of his epic Hulk run.

By: Jason

Jason — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:35:45 +0000

Rawrasaur- American Dream was set in MC2 a continuity that takes place about 15 years after the main MU

By: Kyle W.

Kyle W. — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:23:41 +0000

I, too, want to hear the take on the main DC characters’ identities. I merely got distracted above.

By: Burke

Burke — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:46:56 +0000

There’s another point to consider when comparing the Marvel and DC universes. Generally, in DC, the headquarters is sacrosanct–if villains can even get there, they won’t do much damage, or only manage to grab their old gear.

Over in Marvel? The X-Mansion gets torched on a regular basis. Avengers mansion has been blown up a few times, too, and I think when Four Freedoms Plaza isn’t being wrecked, it’s being repossessed. For all we know, the Marvel teams with established headquarters do have trophy rooms, they just keep getting lost in the debris.

By: Michael Paciocco

Michael Paciocco — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:40:38 +0000

Count me in on wanting to hear your thoughts on the Superman/Clark Bruce/Batman duality.

By: marvinmartian

marvinmartian — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:55:16 +0000

I keep flashing to Claremont penned forced reminiscences, with characters walking beside a wall of photos with the happy faces of former X-Men….but he was arguing in favour of the book being a collection of stories about a family of characters.

Whereas you may be right that the company overall tends to depict its storylines are existing in some timeless ‘present’.

By: Black Rabbit

Black Rabbit — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:45:54 +0000

Isn’t this a difference of philosophies of continuity? When you treat all events (more or less) as canon, you have a history, therefore you have a museum to gather, reference, and generally make use of the past. How many DC stories have started in the Cave, the Fortress, the Satellite? When you decide not to get hung up too much on continuity and focus more on the present and the recent past, any commemoration comes about from convenience or occasional nods to the longtime fanbase (“It happened waaaaay back in ASM #159, True Believers!–Stan.”)

By: Justin Zyduck

Justin Zyduck — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:29:23 +0000

The idea of, say, a anti-molecular inverter being shoved in a mislabeled box in the Baxter Building? That sounds like a Franklin Richards story WAITING TO HAPPEN.

Klytus: I did actually ask the “brainier” bit as a question, and then refute it in the very next paragraph.

By: Rawrasaur

Rawrasaur — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:01:56 +0000

They have tours of the Avenger’s mansion periodically for tourists, so that place is much like a museum. I remember seeing that in an issue of American Dream I had picked up for whatever reason at some point.

Generally, street-level heroes that aren’t ridiculously wealthy don’t have the availability of a museum type thing. When you’re trying to make rent each month, it’s really hard to own and maintain a Batcave.

These aspects are downplayed by the heroes and writers though. Strange has his collection of mystical knick-knacks (remember his Zom-in-a-bottle from WWH?), Iron Man has his armor gallery, Norman Osborn had his hidey hole with the various goblin armors and gliders, the aforementioned Avenger’s Mansion with periodic tours for the public… it generally seems to be rich people who can afford the space have some sort of memorobilia stash.

I think that it’s a lot like John said a few posts up – the emphasis on a lot of DC heroes is the legacy, while the emphasis on the Marvel characters is the character.

–Rawr