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	<title>Comments on: Mad Men and Rocket Men</title>
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	<description>Christopher Bird writes about things.</description>
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		<title>By: Cyril Smith</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-41906</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyril Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-41906</guid>
		<description>Clash of Titans is a superb movie and i am a fan   of the classic movies featuring Hercules and some other greek god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clash of Titans is a superb movie and i am a fan   of the classic movies featuring Hercules and some other greek god.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Waters</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36648</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36648</guid>
		<description>In theory, yeah, a show should be at its best right out of the gate, but it almost always takes a bit longer than that. It took the US OFFICE about a season to set itself apart from the UK one, BUFFY&#039;s first year was pretty uneven compared to what followed- the shows that find their legs in one or two episodes are the exception, at least in the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In theory, yeah, a show should be at its best right out of the gate, but it almost always takes a bit longer than that. It took the US OFFICE about a season to set itself apart from the UK one, BUFFY&#8217;s first year was pretty uneven compared to what followed- the shows that find their legs in one or two episodes are the exception, at least in the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Entrekin</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36643</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Entrekin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36643</guid>
		<description>With some quotes of the entire discussion thus far:

&quot;rightly or wrongly, Fox has become infamous for canceling shows before they’ve hit their stride&quot;

There are two possible responses to this; first is that &quot;hitting the stride&quot; is what the pilot is for; second is that shows shouldn&#039;t demand that we as viewers nor producers of studios wait around while they &quot;hit their stride.&quot;  Both boil down to the fact that strides should be hit as soon as the gun goes off.

&quot;To put it another way, if you can look at anything from the first few seasons and NOT come to the conclusion that House and Wilson are married, I don’t know what show you’re watching.&quot;

I don&#039;t know what show you managed to watch, but the first season of &quot;House&quot; involved no wedding between House and Wilson, nor even their cohabitation, dating, or hanky-panky.  This is because, of course, they&#039;re not actually married.  You can find a box-set of the first season on Amazon pretty cheap; I suggest you rewatch it, and this time make sure you&#039;ve got the right show.

To respond more seriously: one could make an extra-textual argument to the effect, but it would be remarkably less effective than the argument that their close relationship is a deliberate allusion to the two literary characters they are so closely based on as to quite nearly share their names, Holmes and Watson.

&quot;Sadly, for all its flaws, Dollhouse was still probably the best genre show on TV this season (obviously Lost not airing makes a difference here).&quot;

That&#039;d be &quot;Supernatural,&quot; which has become nearly Shakespearean in how good it has remained over the course of five seasons-as-acts, barring some very notable examples of hitting the wrong notes.  Other great genre shows: the aforementioned &quot;House&quot; (mystery disguised as medical drama) and &quot;Castle&quot; (crime).

&quot;There’s more to what qualifies a text as “genre” than simply a cursory, “are there spaceships, yes or no” evaluation of its content.&quot;

This is just a quote I agreed with.  As well as much of the rest of the post to which it belongs.  It&#039;s why, having only experienced David Tennant as the Doctor, &quot;Doctor Who&quot; doesn&#039;t play as science fiction for me, mainly because there&#039;s no actual science in it (&quot;time goes wibbly-wobbly&quot; doesn&#039;t count as science); it&#039;s just a time machine effectively used to tell stories that are generally more dramatic/action-adventure-oriented than its ostensible genre belies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With some quotes of the entire discussion thus far:</p>
<p>&#8220;rightly or wrongly, Fox has become infamous for canceling shows before they’ve hit their stride&#8221;</p>
<p>There are two possible responses to this; first is that &#8220;hitting the stride&#8221; is what the pilot is for; second is that shows shouldn&#8217;t demand that we as viewers nor producers of studios wait around while they &#8220;hit their stride.&#8221;  Both boil down to the fact that strides should be hit as soon as the gun goes off.</p>
<p>&#8220;To put it another way, if you can look at anything from the first few seasons and NOT come to the conclusion that House and Wilson are married, I don’t know what show you’re watching.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what show you managed to watch, but the first season of &#8220;House&#8221; involved no wedding between House and Wilson, nor even their cohabitation, dating, or hanky-panky.  This is because, of course, they&#8217;re not actually married.  You can find a box-set of the first season on Amazon pretty cheap; I suggest you rewatch it, and this time make sure you&#8217;ve got the right show.</p>
<p>To respond more seriously: one could make an extra-textual argument to the effect, but it would be remarkably less effective than the argument that their close relationship is a deliberate allusion to the two literary characters they are so closely based on as to quite nearly share their names, Holmes and Watson.</p>
<p>&#8220;Sadly, for all its flaws, Dollhouse was still probably the best genre show on TV this season (obviously Lost not airing makes a difference here).&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;d be &#8220;Supernatural,&#8221; which has become nearly Shakespearean in how good it has remained over the course of five seasons-as-acts, barring some very notable examples of hitting the wrong notes.  Other great genre shows: the aforementioned &#8220;House&#8221; (mystery disguised as medical drama) and &#8220;Castle&#8221; (crime).</p>
<p>&#8220;There’s more to what qualifies a text as “genre” than simply a cursory, “are there spaceships, yes or no” evaluation of its content.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is just a quote I agreed with.  As well as much of the rest of the post to which it belongs.  It&#8217;s why, having only experienced David Tennant as the Doctor, &#8220;Doctor Who&#8221; doesn&#8217;t play as science fiction for me, mainly because there&#8217;s no actual science in it (&#8220;time goes wibbly-wobbly&#8221; doesn&#8217;t count as science); it&#8217;s just a time machine effectively used to tell stories that are generally more dramatic/action-adventure-oriented than its ostensible genre belies.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Waters</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36637</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36637</guid>
		<description>Willips- You say &quot;time travel as a means to stop plunger wielding trashcans from exterminating all things not receptacle-shaped&quot; as though it were a bad thing. And that&#039;s really more about the divide between genre and &quot;literature&quot;, as it&#039;s often imposed by booksellers and critics. I think these days critics are starting to recognize there&#039;s more bleedthru between popular fiction and lit fic, but still, books gotta be put somewhere, and Atwood&#039;s gonna sell better in the general fiction section even when she does write something with genre elements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willips- You say &#8220;time travel as a means to stop plunger wielding trashcans from exterminating all things not receptacle-shaped&#8221; as though it were a bad thing. And that&#8217;s really more about the divide between genre and &#8220;literature&#8221;, as it&#8217;s often imposed by booksellers and critics. I think these days critics are starting to recognize there&#8217;s more bleedthru between popular fiction and lit fic, but still, books gotta be put somewhere, and Atwood&#8217;s gonna sell better in the general fiction section even when she does write something with genre elements.</p>
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		<title>By: Gloria</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36634</link>
		<dc:creator>Gloria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36634</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Matthew. Take it as a compliment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Matthew. Take it as a compliment?</p>
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		<title>By: William George</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36630</link>
		<dc:creator>William George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36630</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In fact, I’d say that when most regular people think “fanfic”, they think sex&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I usually think, &quot;How the fuck did I end up here? Where&#039;s the back button?! Ahhhhh!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In fact, I’d say that when most regular people think “fanfic”, they think sex</p></blockquote>
<p>I usually think, &#8220;How the fuck did I end up here? Where&#8217;s the back button?! Ahhhhh!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Willips Brighton</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36629</link>
		<dc:creator>Willips Brighton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36629</guid>
		<description>At the risk of pissing off a healthy chunk of the internet, I&#039;d argue that Margaret Atwood isn&#039;t sci-fi for more reasons than simply how she&#039;s marketed. There are plenty of &quot;sci-fi&quot; authors - Atwood, Pynchon, Vonnegut, Burroughs, Ballard etc. - that get put on different shelves, read by different people, and evaluated by different standards, simply on the basis of what&#039;s written, regardless of whether the author self-identifies as a sci-fi writer or not. There&#039;s more to what qualifies a text as &quot;genre&quot; than simply a cursory, &quot;are there spaceships, yes or no&quot; evaluation of its content. There are reasons non-fans &quot;marginalize and despise&quot; genre works, just as there are reasons the best genre texts transcend that stigma. Lord of the Rings became a massive, cross-demographic hit, despite being a reprehensible and disgusting old fantasy story. The average fare on the Sci-Fi...sorry, Sy-Fy channel(Why? Why?), not so much. I guess I&#039;m saying there&#039;s &quot;using time-travel as a means to explore a character&#039;s inner psycho-drama&quot; genre, and then there&#039;s &quot;using time-travel as a means to stop plunger wielding trashcans from exterminating all thing not receptacle-shaped&quot; genre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of pissing off a healthy chunk of the internet, I&#8217;d argue that Margaret Atwood isn&#8217;t sci-fi for more reasons than simply how she&#8217;s marketed. There are plenty of &#8220;sci-fi&#8221; authors &#8211; Atwood, Pynchon, Vonnegut, Burroughs, Ballard etc. &#8211; that get put on different shelves, read by different people, and evaluated by different standards, simply on the basis of what&#8217;s written, regardless of whether the author self-identifies as a sci-fi writer or not. There&#8217;s more to what qualifies a text as &#8220;genre&#8221; than simply a cursory, &#8220;are there spaceships, yes or no&#8221; evaluation of its content. There are reasons non-fans &#8220;marginalize and despise&#8221; genre works, just as there are reasons the best genre texts transcend that stigma. Lord of the Rings became a massive, cross-demographic hit, despite being a reprehensible and disgusting old fantasy story. The average fare on the Sci-Fi&#8230;sorry, Sy-Fy channel(Why? Why?), not so much. I guess I&#8217;m saying there&#8217;s &#8220;using time-travel as a means to explore a character&#8217;s inner psycho-drama&#8221; genre, and then there&#8217;s &#8220;using time-travel as a means to stop plunger wielding trashcans from exterminating all thing not receptacle-shaped&#8221; genre.</p>
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		<title>By: SC</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36626</link>
		<dc:creator>SC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36626</guid>
		<description>Frankly, a lot of academic studies about culture are basically high-gloss fandom.  Look the ongoing interpretational war over Henry James&#039; 100+ year-old &quot;Turn of the Screw&quot; and it&#039;s basically a flame war in better language; or anything to do with Shakespeare (such as his identity, even).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, a lot of academic studies about culture are basically high-gloss fandom.  Look the ongoing interpretational war over Henry James&#8217; 100+ year-old &#8220;Turn of the Screw&#8221; and it&#8217;s basically a flame war in better language; or anything to do with Shakespeare (such as his identity, even).</p>
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		<title>By: Lamashtar</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36619</link>
		<dc:creator>Lamashtar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36619</guid>
		<description>I do not understand how one can find prose written about a medical drama--probably involving doctors having deep conversations or having sex--to be repulsive.  Seriously, what is it?  Doctors?  Sex?  Perhaps the prospect of the exchange of body fluids in an environment that may contain obscure airborne germs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not understand how one can find prose written about a medical drama&#8211;probably involving doctors having deep conversations or having sex&#8211;to be repulsive.  Seriously, what is it?  Doctors?  Sex?  Perhaps the prospect of the exchange of body fluids in an environment that may contain obscure airborne germs?</p>
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		<title>By: bloody hell</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36611</link>
		<dc:creator>bloody hell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36611</guid>
		<description>well Duh!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well Duh!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Waters</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36603</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36603</guid>
		<description>The interesting thing is, you can have a mainstream genre hit without going out of your way to disguise genre elements- what you have to be able to do is present it in a way that the mainstream can easily grasp. Usually it&#039;s down to characters- BUFFY has a bunch of high school kids fighting monsters, the new DOCTOR WHO always has a companion &quot;viewpoint&quot; character and a protagonist who&#039;s charming and handsome and eccentric, etc.

What DOLLHOUSE ran into was that it was, as said above, a creepy premise, and characters who were all on one level or another morally compromised. There was no safety/comfort element, no nice baseline from which creepy shit could then happen. I enjoyed it, but there was no way it was gonna go mainstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting thing is, you can have a mainstream genre hit without going out of your way to disguise genre elements- what you have to be able to do is present it in a way that the mainstream can easily grasp. Usually it&#8217;s down to characters- BUFFY has a bunch of high school kids fighting monsters, the new DOCTOR WHO always has a companion &#8220;viewpoint&#8221; character and a protagonist who&#8217;s charming and handsome and eccentric, etc.</p>
<p>What DOLLHOUSE ran into was that it was, as said above, a creepy premise, and characters who were all on one level or another morally compromised. There was no safety/comfort element, no nice baseline from which creepy shit could then happen. I enjoyed it, but there was no way it was gonna go mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36595</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36595</guid>
		<description>Also, I would totally fap to a House fanfic. Hugh Laurie is SO HOT! Old, but SO HOT. I also have a girl boner for Gil Grissom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I would totally fap to a House fanfic. Hugh Laurie is SO HOT! Old, but SO HOT. I also have a girl boner for Gil Grissom.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36594</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36594</guid>
		<description>I love love love Being Erica. So does my boyfriend.

You make an interesting point. But I really think what puts this show at risk is the fact that it&#039;s only available to a limited audience (Canadians, Soapnet watchers) and not that it&#039;s secretly a science fiction targeted at women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love love love Being Erica. So does my boyfriend.</p>
<p>You make an interesting point. But I really think what puts this show at risk is the fact that it&#8217;s only available to a limited audience (Canadians, Soapnet watchers) and not that it&#8217;s secretly a science fiction targeted at women.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Johnson</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36591</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36591</guid>
		<description>Just a note, Gloria, that &#039;twas I who wrote this post and not MGK. The opinions expressed and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note, Gloria, that &#8217;twas I who wrote this post and not MGK. The opinions expressed and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Gloria</title>
		<link>http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/11/18/mad-men-and-rocket-men/comment-page-1/#comment-36582</link>
		<dc:creator>Gloria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mightygodking.com/?p=2318#comment-36582</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s written primarily by women, and it’s written to explore the OTHER side of the show, the interesting and complex character interactions.&quot; 

The &quot;flip&quot; side of fanfics -- exploring, ahem, &quot;character interactions&quot; -- has been well-known for a long time. In fact, I&#039;d say that when most regular people think &quot;fanfic&quot;, they think sex, a la the famous Kirk and Spock fics that started it all. It&#039;s not a completely balanced representation of fanfics, but it&#039;s a little seedy, so it sticks in people&#039;s minds.

So I&#039;m not sure your explanation applies to MGK&#039;s expression of horror. I&#039;m fairly sure he&#039;s more referring to the fact that many women out there can publicly share wildly elaborate, intense sexual fantasies about Hugh Laurie -- something that many regular dudes just do not understand. That includes my boyfriend (&quot;But he&#039;s so old!&quot;). 

&quot;However, most of the House fanfic I’ve read has involved little to no actual medical practice.&quot; 

Teehee. I must admit I&#039;d kind of smile and think, &quot;Aw, how cute&quot; if someone told me that was what they were expecting when they opened a House fanfic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s written primarily by women, and it’s written to explore the OTHER side of the show, the interesting and complex character interactions.&#8221; </p>
<p>The &#8220;flip&#8221; side of fanfics &#8212; exploring, ahem, &#8220;character interactions&#8221; &#8212; has been well-known for a long time. In fact, I&#8217;d say that when most regular people think &#8220;fanfic&#8221;, they think sex, a la the famous Kirk and Spock fics that started it all. It&#8217;s not a completely balanced representation of fanfics, but it&#8217;s a little seedy, so it sticks in people&#8217;s minds.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not sure your explanation applies to MGK&#8217;s expression of horror. I&#8217;m fairly sure he&#8217;s more referring to the fact that many women out there can publicly share wildly elaborate, intense sexual fantasies about Hugh Laurie &#8212; something that many regular dudes just do not understand. That includes my boyfriend (&#8220;But he&#8217;s so old!&#8221;). </p>
<p>&#8220;However, most of the House fanfic I’ve read has involved little to no actual medical practice.&#8221; </p>
<p>Teehee. I must admit I&#8217;d kind of smile and think, &#8220;Aw, how cute&#8221; if someone told me that was what they were expecting when they opened a House fanfic.</p>
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