Comments on: My Inception No-Prize http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/ Christopher Bird writes about things. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:05:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: k987 http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-48534 k987 Sat, 02 Oct 2010 06:13:13 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-48534 During the whole movie i thought cobb was in a hospital, and the whole movie was like a struggle to wakeup or not from his coma. During the whole movie i thought cobb was in a hospital, and the whole movie was like a struggle to wakeup or not from his coma.

]]> By: Steve http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46249 Steve Sat, 31 Jul 2010 08:02:53 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46249 Just saw it, and enjoyed the hell out of it. To me, the ending isn't all the important; in this case the ride was more enjoyable than the destination. I kept wondering if Ariadne and Cobb awoke from the dreamdive right before the plane; I figured they were going to use that to pull off that there was yet another layer, and that the job was to wake Cobb up. The idea of her as the older daughter is interesting and leaves me asking this: at the beginning of the film; when Cobb was on the phone with his kids, wasn't there an older girl's voice that seemed a lot older than the daughter they pictured? Just saw it, and enjoyed the hell out of it. To me, the ending isn’t all the important; in this case the ride was more enjoyable than the destination.

I kept wondering if Ariadne and Cobb awoke from the dreamdive right before the plane; I figured they were going to use that to pull off that there was yet another layer, and that the job was to wake Cobb up. The idea of her as the older daughter is interesting and leaves me asking this: at the beginning of the film; when Cobb was on the phone with his kids, wasn’t there an older girl’s voice that seemed a lot older than the daughter they pictured?

]]> By: magnuskn http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46248 magnuskn Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:31:40 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46248 @Candlejack: I see... Hm. Well, I'll see the movie again in two weeks with a friend, I guess I'll pay even *more* attention to that moment. :p Doesn't that all mean, as per the premise introduced when the group got into the dream, that the others are still trapped in the first layer of the dream, too? Or worse, drowned in the van and are all in limbo? @Candlejack: I see… Hm. Well, I’ll see the movie again in two weeks with a friend, I guess I’ll pay even *more* attention to that moment. :p

Doesn’t that all mean, as per the premise introduced when the group got into the dream, that the others are still trapped in the first layer of the dream, too? Or worse, drowned in the van and are all in limbo?

]]> By: Candlejack http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46246 Candlejack Sat, 31 Jul 2010 05:03:18 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46246 @magnuskn --Tops do spin in one place if they're spun upright. If you're in a hurry, it's easy to impart a tilt, and then they spin in circles until they fall. They just don't right themselves. So is it a simple mistake? Were we not supposed to notice it righted itself, because it's not important? Or is it supposed to be some kind of signal? The thing about the totems is, they should only let you know if you're in somebody <i>else's</i> construct--because the person laying down the rules in that case doesn't know the specific properties of your totem. But <i>you</i> obviously do know the details of your own totem, so if you're building the dream yourself...well, then, the totem should basically act as you think it ought to. So, if the behavior of the top <i>was</i> supposed to be a clue, I imagine it would be something like this: Cobb comes home and everything looks just as it did in his memory-constructs. He panics and gives the top a wild spin. He sees the kids--and they also are <i>exactly</i> as they were in his dreams. The top, as an indication of his own disbelief, rights itself and prepares to spin indefinitely. But then Cobb goes out to his children and subconsciously decides, fuck it, this is real, this is what I need. For me, this is real enough. The top bobbles...and probably falls. Because he wants it to. @magnuskn –Tops do spin in one place if they’re spun upright. If you’re in a hurry, it’s easy to impart a tilt, and then they spin in circles until they fall. They just don’t right themselves. So is it a simple mistake? Were we not supposed to notice it righted itself, because it’s not important? Or is it supposed to be some kind of signal?

The thing about the totems is, they should only let you know if you’re in somebody else’s construct–because the person laying down the rules in that case doesn’t know the specific properties of your totem. But you obviously do know the details of your own totem, so if you’re building the dream yourself…well, then, the totem should basically act as you think it ought to.

So, if the behavior of the top was supposed to be a clue, I imagine it would be something like this: Cobb comes home and everything looks just as it did in his memory-constructs. He panics and gives the top a wild spin. He sees the kids–and they also are exactly as they were in his dreams. The top, as an indication of his own disbelief, rights itself and prepares to spin indefinitely. But then Cobb goes out to his children and subconsciously decides, fuck it, this is real, this is what I need. For me, this is real enough. The top bobbles…and probably falls. Because he wants it to.

]]> By: Foop http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46243 Foop Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:02:36 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46243 I agree with msot of this. One thing I want to mention though, is that I'm not always in all of my dreams. Sometimes I just have settings and I am a secondary character, some times a bunch of shit happens and I have no part of it whatsoever, and somewhat often i am someone else (its still first person, I mean, but it's not me per se). I agree with msot of this.

One thing I want to mention though, is that I’m not always in all of my dreams. Sometimes I just have settings and I am a secondary character, some times a bunch of shit happens and I have no part of it whatsoever, and somewhat often i am someone else (its still first person, I mean, but it’s not me per se).

]]> By: Mark Temporis http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46242 Mark Temporis Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:56:49 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46242 Nearly all my dreams don't involve me, at least the ones I remember. I try to have much more interesting people in them; a recent one was a spy flick starring Tricia Helfer and Danny de Vito. Nearly all my dreams don’t involve me, at least the ones I remember. I try to have much more interesting people in them; a recent one was a spy flick starring Tricia Helfer and Danny de Vito.

]]> By: gustopher http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46237 gustopher Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:21:10 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46237 This movie would have been better had Cobb decided that he wasn't living in the real world at the end, and then killed his children and then himself. This movie would have been better had Cobb decided that he wasn’t living in the real world at the end, and then killed his children and then himself.

]]> By: Ekebolou http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46234 Ekebolou Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:48:21 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46234 Don't know how useful it'll be, but I would like to back Tenken347's post- that the ending isn't actually an attempt to insert ambiguity into the whole of the movie- with a slight addendum. It is indeed a heist movie, but it is a heist movie of style we don't see terribly often. We are at every point following the thieves, participating in the deceptions and in the motivations to the point where the only mystery is the setting (which, for all the 'but it's not dreamy enough' elements, it's good to remember that these were designed by conscious waking people with a goal- the whole point of the architect is to establish a controlled setting, and one in which the move from dream to reality is ambiguous in order to better confuse the 'mark' they seek to bamboozle. Presumably heading straight into acid-trip territory would be counter-productive). Everything is explained, to the point of tedium for some viewers, and every attempt is made to keep the viewers in step with the action. It'd be a drastic switch in the character of the film if that last scene was indeed meant to throw the whole of the events of the movie into a sort of solipsistic doubt (and it'd be cheap storytelling). There is an element to choosing one's reality that goes on, as Tenken347 mentions, but if that's all there is to it, then there's not point in /not/ choosing to stay with Mal's projection in limbo (other than the fact that she's not as cool as the real Mal, as per Dom's little speech). There is a reality which has supremacy, and Dom repeatedly tries to make the point that it is all that matters to him: the reality of his children. In one scene, he argues with Mal that regardless of his belief in the 'reality' of this or that existence or his wants, his children exist in a reality where they are waiting for their father to come home, and that is what he must focus on. They are more important than either his psychological issues (represented by the fact that anywhere his subconscious is, Mal's projection is as well), or whether he likes what he's doing (as he says to Michael Caine, whose name I cannot even attempt to remember in the movie). He not only points this out to Mal, but to Arthur, to Ariadne (repeatedly- she flees to the rickety elevator upon yet another reprise of this theme, even as Dom says 'all you need to know about me is...') and to anyone who holds still for long enough. That's not really a significant deviation from Tenken347's post, but I thought a viewpoint worth mentioning, because it speaks well of the originality and intent of the movie that there is an interpretation of the events in which the protagonist is a hero not for achieving his own goals or conquering his own demons, or pulling off a great heist and getting the wonderful prizes at the end, but because he's able to hold on to what is important to him, and see it through, not only resolving his issues, but doing good for the rest of his team and taking on considerable personal risk to do the right thing. The big celebration, the payoff, is, in fact, seeing his kids turn around, and that's all it needs to be. A heist movie without a thief protagonist, after the glittering prize. That leaves my problem with the movie as the fact that while Leonardo diCaprio does a wonderful job, and is a great actor, and I like his character, he's just a little bit hard to believe as a doting father who wants to get back to his kids. Perhaps a little more fleshing out of some of Ariadne, or Saito (although I also think Saito's pretty clear) would've helped, but when was there time? Arthur and Eames are well-rounded characters with really only a handful of lines about their own motivations, though, so... *shrug* Anyway. did I win longest post? Don’t know how useful it’ll be, but I would like to back Tenken347′s post- that the ending isn’t actually an attempt to insert ambiguity into the whole of the movie- with a slight addendum.
It is indeed a heist movie, but it is a heist movie of style we don’t see terribly often. We are at every point following the thieves, participating in the deceptions and in the motivations to the point where the only mystery is the setting (which, for all the ‘but it’s not dreamy enough’ elements, it’s good to remember that these were designed by conscious waking people with a goal- the whole point of the architect is to establish a controlled setting, and one in which the move from dream to reality is ambiguous in order to better confuse the ‘mark’ they seek to bamboozle. Presumably heading straight into acid-trip territory would be counter-productive). Everything is explained, to the point of tedium for some viewers, and every attempt is made to keep the viewers in step with the action. It’d be a drastic switch in the character of the film if that last scene was indeed meant to throw the whole of the events of the movie into a sort of solipsistic doubt (and it’d be cheap storytelling).
There is an element to choosing one’s reality that goes on, as Tenken347 mentions, but if that’s all there is to it, then there’s not point in /not/ choosing to stay with Mal’s projection in limbo (other than the fact that she’s not as cool as the real Mal, as per Dom’s little speech). There is a reality which has supremacy, and Dom repeatedly tries to make the point that it is all that matters to him: the reality of his children. In one scene, he argues with Mal that regardless of his belief in the ‘reality’ of this or that existence or his wants, his children exist in a reality where they are waiting for their father to come home, and that is what he must focus on. They are more important than either his psychological issues (represented by the fact that anywhere his subconscious is, Mal’s projection is as well), or whether he likes what he’s doing (as he says to Michael Caine, whose name I cannot even attempt to remember in the movie). He not only points this out to Mal, but to Arthur, to Ariadne (repeatedly- she flees to the rickety elevator upon yet another reprise of this theme, even as Dom says ‘all you need to know about me is…’) and to anyone who holds still for long enough.
That’s not really a significant deviation from Tenken347′s post, but I thought a viewpoint worth mentioning, because it speaks well of the originality and intent of the movie that there is an interpretation of the events in which the protagonist is a hero not for achieving his own goals or conquering his own demons, or pulling off a great heist and getting the wonderful prizes at the end, but because he’s able to hold on to what is important to him, and see it through, not only resolving his issues, but doing good for the rest of his team and taking on considerable personal risk to do the right thing. The big celebration, the payoff, is, in fact, seeing his kids turn around, and that’s all it needs to be. A heist movie without a thief protagonist, after the glittering prize.
That leaves my problem with the movie as the fact that while Leonardo diCaprio does a wonderful job, and is a great actor, and I like his character, he’s just a little bit hard to believe as a doting father who wants to get back to his kids. Perhaps a little more fleshing out of some of Ariadne, or Saito (although I also think Saito’s pretty clear) would’ve helped, but when was there time? Arthur and Eames are well-rounded characters with really only a handful of lines about their own motivations, though, so… *shrug*
Anyway. did I win longest post?

]]> By: BAM http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46232 BAM Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:51:42 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46232 When you talk about Cobb's experience of Mal "dying," you are referring to the hotel suicide right? If so, what about the train track co-suicide scene? Is that supposed to be a projection and a false escape from his dream prison? I thought it was pretty clear that the train scene was how they killed themselves out of limbo into reality. Alternate plot meanings are fun to think about, but I agree with 'Menamebephil,' it is most successful on its primary level. It should be considered a great piece of screenplay writing, because it allows the viewer some freedom to interpret, like a lot of other great films and novels allow. When you talk about Cobb’s experience of Mal “dying,” you are referring to the hotel suicide right? If so, what about the train track co-suicide scene? Is that supposed to be a projection and a false escape from his dream prison? I thought it was pretty clear that the train scene was how they killed themselves out of limbo into reality.

Alternate plot meanings are fun to think about, but I agree with ‘Menamebephil,’ it is most successful on its primary level. It should be considered a great piece of screenplay writing, because it allows the viewer some freedom to interpret, like a lot of other great films and novels allow.

]]> By: Menamebephil http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46230 Menamebephil Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:25:56 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46230 For me, the dreams in which 'I' am not present usually take the form of the 'myself as unseen observer' variety, as though I am just hovering over someone else's shoulder like some kind of incorporeal parrot. And dreams-within-dreams are almost impossible to remember, but I could /completely/ relate to the whole perceive-time-faster-one-layer-down thing. I've had dreams that seemed to last all day, then I'll wake up and I'll be all disconcerted and it'll be mid-afternoon or something and I'll go through another hour or so of dream and /then/ I'll wake up. It's really weird. For me, the dreams in which ‘I’ am not present usually take the form of the ‘myself as unseen observer’ variety, as though I am just hovering over someone else’s shoulder like some kind of incorporeal parrot.

And dreams-within-dreams are almost impossible to remember, but I could /completely/ relate to the whole perceive-time-faster-one-layer-down thing. I’ve had dreams that seemed to last all day, then I’ll wake up and I’ll be all disconcerted and it’ll be mid-afternoon or something and I’ll go through another hour or so of dream and /then/ I’ll wake up.

It’s really weird.

]]> By: Blake http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46224 Blake Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:41:19 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46224 This is just me, but I very often have dreams where I cease to be the lead. Especially if I pick up a book or watch a movie, at which point my dream starts to follow those characters and events. This is just me, but I very often have dreams where I cease to be the lead. Especially if I pick up a book or watch a movie, at which point my dream starts to follow those characters and events.

]]> By: equinox216 http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46223 equinox216 Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:35:15 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46223 My dreams in which I'm absent have been anything from 'unseen observer but still some sort of me' to 'straight-up cinematic style uninvolvement of me', Kyle. Though that difference comes from subject matter (the former is 'stuff that relates to my life' and the latter isn't); mostly it's just that, of the entities and objects that actually interact with each other in the dream, I'm not one of them. My dreams in which I’m absent have been anything from ‘unseen observer but still some sort of me’ to ‘straight-up cinematic style uninvolvement of me’, Kyle. Though that difference comes from subject matter (the former is ‘stuff that relates to my life’ and the latter isn’t); mostly it’s just that, of the entities and objects that actually interact with each other in the dream, I’m not one of them.

]]> By: Kyle http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46221 Kyle Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:18:40 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46221 OK, so it seems I may be in the minority here, but I don't have dreams that I'm not in. At least not that I'm aware of (of course, if I'm not there, would I even know?). So how exactly does that work? By not being in the dream, is it like watching a movie, i.e. you see everything happening but aren't a participant? Or is there some deeper "dream logic" that comes in to play that makes it more like something you experience yet don't experience, all at the same time. And does Heisenberg enter into it, whereby observing your dream, even as a non-participant, alters what happens? Basically, I'm just curious about the experience. OK, so it seems I may be in the minority here, but I don’t have dreams that I’m not in. At least not that I’m aware of (of course, if I’m not there, would I even know?).

So how exactly does that work? By not being in the dream, is it like watching a movie, i.e. you see everything happening but aren’t a participant? Or is there some deeper “dream logic” that comes in to play that makes it more like something you experience yet don’t experience, all at the same time. And does Heisenberg enter into it, whereby observing your dream, even as a non-participant, alters what happens?

Basically, I’m just curious about the experience.

]]> By: magnuskn http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46220 magnuskn Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:35:35 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46220 @Candlejack: Yeah, but wasn't it doing the "spinning in place" throughout the whole movie? Okay, going with the "all a dream" theory, that'd be another metaphor. Meh, I am going with the "straight" ending, I guess. @Candlejack: Yeah, but wasn’t it doing the “spinning in place” throughout the whole movie? Okay, going with the “all a dream” theory, that’d be another metaphor. Meh, I am going with the “straight” ending, I guess.

]]> By: bryan http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/07/29/my-inception-no-prize/comment-page-1/#comment-46219 bryan Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:23:19 +0000 http://mightygodking.com/?p=3735#comment-46219 "When was the last time you had a dream you weren’t in?" I'm not sure when the last time was but I've certainly had lots of them. “When was the last time you had a dream you weren’t in?”

I’m not sure when the last time was but I’ve certainly had lots of them.

]]>