So this admittedly funny post is circulating around the internets, and while people are arguing whether or not Jimmy Carter is underrated (dude was Navy) or betting on whether Teddy Roosevelt or Andrew Jackson is the biggest ringer, the one thing they all mostly agree on is that Obama would get killed early on because he’s too nice.
People are underrating Obama because Obama wants to get along, and here is why:
There’s a great Star Trek novel – bear with me, people – by Julia Ecklar called The Kobayashi Maru, which is theoretically about how Kirk, Scotty, Chekov and Sulu all took that famous “built to fail” test, and it’s some of the best Trek writing I’ve ever read, up there with the Zar books by A.C. Crispin or Final Frontier by Diane Carey or How Much For Just The Planet? by the late, great John M. Ford. I know this sounds like total nerdbait, but I am genuinely serious when I say that the top tier of 80s Trek books are simply some of the greatest genre fiction ever written – there’s real genius there, writers who wanted to write Big Sci-Fi Adventure and realized that Trek books were their best option for doing so. If you haven’t read these books, you’re missing out.
So anyway, The Kobayashi Maru is basically four short stories written into a binding narrative. They’re all very good: Kirk recounts how he cheated on the test (and it’s even funnier than it was in the 2009 film, and that was pretty damn funny), Sulu’s story is a melancholy and beautiful meditation on loss and the harsh realities of becoming an adult, and Scotty more or less blows up the universe in his test, which is kind of classic.
But Chekov’s story is brilliant because it skips the Maru test completely and instead proceeds to a second test Starfleet cadets are made to fail, which is basically a giant version of Mafia/Werewolf where everybody is armed with stun lasers: there’s a “spy” whose instruction is to kill everybody else and they have to survive. Chekov and his fellow cadets basically all blow the shit out of one another with their stun lasers and in the process torpedo many a friendship, and at the end, when everybody is “dead,” along comes the instructor. Everybody assumes Chekov is going to win because he “killed” the most other people, and then the instructor drops the bombshell:
They all failed. Like everybody always fails this test, because everybody does what Chekov and his classmates did, because everybody always decides to kill everybody else and survive to “win.” Except, of course, for one person, who realized that the point of the exercise wasn’t “kill everybody else,” because Starfleet doesn’t work that way. What that student did was refuse to play the game: he created a “safe zone” where people could come and show that they could be trusted (by surrendering their weapons) and once you can trust some people, you can extend that trust to more people because you’ve got people to watch your back. The whole “only one survivor” thing is a con, plain and simple. And of course, that student who figured that out was James T. Kirk.
And that is why Obama would win. It’s not about getting along for the sake of getting along. It’s about being smart enough to know what game you’re playing in the first place. And when you’re dealing with “every President fights to the death with knives,” you’ve got to realize most of them are smart enough to know that doing so would probably get them killed, and most of them wouldn’t want to fight anyway. (Jackson and Nixon, yes, but not most of them.)
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I’m gonna have to read that book.
I’m sorry, I just don’t think that any amount of clever oratory is going to stop a crazed Andrew Jackson.
That was wonderfully well-put. And yes, that book is now on my to-buy list.
Clever oratory + Teddy Roosevelt + multiple other veteran presidents = stopped Andrew Jackson. Any other presidents interested in scrapping to the death would be a welcome cannon fodder/distraction whilst the offensive gets organized. (And hey, Grant knows all about cannon fodder…)
Food might become an issue. Depends whether the participants are immortal to things that are not knives, like starvation or age.
That book is why the movie scene didn’t really work for me: it didn’t live up to the book.
Man… why does everyone underestimate Obama? Yeah, he’s a nice guy, but that’s only because nobody — not even the Republicans — have pushed him too far yet. What was that Terry Pratchett line? “Hope like hell your opponent is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”
I remember that book fondly. I haven’t read it in quite a while, but I do still have it. Those Trek novels were quite good as I recall.
I love the observation that the presidential knife fight battle royale would end with grand alliance versus Andrew Jackson as opposed to every man for himself, but I must say that Obama is among the least likely to assume the “Kirk” role.
At least half of the U.S. presidents would not accept the leadership of a black man. Even Obama’s participation in an alliance would be immensely alienating to a large number of participants (and not just history’s villains).
I’d say Lincoln, my pick for Kirk (recruited by the alliance of FDR-and-later Dems, an outwardly friendly group secretly guided by the Machiavellian LBJ!), would have a very hard choice to make- accept Obama at the cost of half the country’s history.
Being Lincoln, one supposes he would take Obama in and then dispatch TR (enlisted by his cousin) and Grant (who’d back Lincoln from moment one) to wipe out the rebels. But imagine a “Kirk” sligtly less compassionate (LBJ? Nixon?) or slightly more racist (Washington? Wilson?). Obama could easily be left on the outside, his insight and charisma made irrelevant by the color of his skin.
I just wanted to join the general approbation of Kobayashi Maru.
Over the last decade, I kept coming back to the Sulu portion of that book. Sulu’s approach to the test was brilliant–he looked at the whole situation, promised Kobayashi that he’d tell Starfleet about their situation, and (ignoring a near-mutiny amongst his amped-up crew of cadets) flew away without ever entering the Neutral Zone.
He “lost”–he wasn’t able to rescue the ship. But unlike absolutely everyone else, he lost with 0 casualties and a functioning starship, and without starting a war.
It was really nice reading a book where “not doing something suicidally stupid” was treated as a net positive and a sign of a character’s basic suitability for command, instead of the opposite.
Woo! Thank you for calling out The Kobayashi Maru, which I got my parents to buy for me in my pre-adolescent “hey look, it’s a Star Wars/Star Trek book, I want it” phase. Even then I knew I was reading something way above average and about a million times better than it had any right to be. I still remember it some 20+ years later.
Scotty’s solution was the best, though, and I will hear no differently. Computer’s cheating? CHEAT BACK.
I barely remember “How Much For Just The Planet?”… it’s one of the few Star Trek books I’ve actually read (the others being the novelization of Star Trek V, of course way better than the movie, and The Doomsday Machine or something like that). Which I remembered if I’d liked it.
*Wish, not which.
I hope a a future post gives a list of TREK novels that are worthy of attention….
The above aforementioned plus Uhura’s Song, The IDIC Epidemic, Doctor’s Orders, Prime Directive, Masks, Q-In-Law, A Rock And A Hard Place and Vendetta would be my shortlist.
I really like the New Fronteir Trek books, and I loved Spock’s Planet.
I didn’t enjoy How Much For Just the Planet as much as I was expecting to, but I have never found reading the script of a musical as entertaining as watching the musical itself.
I was a big fan of Douglas Hill as a youngster, and he wrote an excellent (for Teen Readers) quartet of books called the ‘Last Legionary’ series, about the last survivor of a planet of bad-ass mercenaries who hunts down the super-villain who poisoned his planet.
Anyway, there was a ‘prequel’ book called Young Legionary, where there was a similiar ‘test’ with a twist at the end. Basically, the main character (Keil) gets told that his class’s final exam will be how they perform in the end of year Games (sort of a combination gymnastics / combat tournament). Keill is incensed b/c his best friend injured her knee and won’t be able to compete. Anyway, Keill gets to (I think) the semi-finals before losing. When he speaks to his commander, he asks permission to speak freely before criticising the emphasis on Games performance, while especially asking for consideration for his friend who was injured.
The twist then comes : The final marks were based upon the degree to which each studen was ability to deal with the failure and frustration of being defeated, as will invariable ensue at some time on the battlefield. Keill’s friend qualifies as top of the class for her calm acceptance of her injury.
I’m scared to look at these books again, as what was so cool to a 13 year old may have diminished with time…
I have both Maru and How Much for Just the Planet on my bookshelf. They’re excellent, although I feel the absence of Uhura in Maru to be saddening. Also, HMFJTP is probably one of the funniest Star Trek books out there – although that may not be saying much.
I like I Q, because it goes from Q’s usual bombast to somewhere melancholic and a little sad. There was one involving a disguised Klingon spy living amongst Starfleet and at the end of the book he has to let a friend die to keep his cover. Twelve year old me was so pissed off that I never picked up the next book in the series. Still a little mad, actually.
I think the Kirk role would most likely be a combination of the Civil War and World War II vets. Lincoln, Ike, and Rutherford B Hayes, definitely; probably HW Bush, and maybe Jimmy Carter in there as well. I think those guys form the nucleus and pull in most of the rest of the presidents who aren’t insane, assholes, insane assholes, or totally cowardly.
The fact of the matter is we’re dealing with a group of people who mostly respect each other (either personally, or for shared common values like religion and military service) and who are mostly good at dealing with other people. It’s unlikely things are going to get too crazy.
Obama is going to get straight-up killed by Andrew Jackson, though, sorry. He’s not going to do anything, because Jackson was crazy and racist. It’s unfortunate but that is probably what happens.
ITA on the Star Trek novels! I haven’t read Kobayashi Maru but the Kirk part makes perfect sense given his decision against killing the Gorn in “Arena.” I do remember laughing myself sick at HMFJTP. I also really enjoyed Duane/Morwood’s The Romulan Way, about a deep-cover Federation spy on Romulus, for its cultural musings about the Romulans and for Bones’ filibuster when he’s captured and put on trial. Plus, for guilty pleasure, there’s Hambly’s Ishmael.
As for the knife fight, I do think a lot of the presidents would be using the chaos as cover for setting up a mass escape, or even a rebellion against the gamemasters. Sure, Jackson would accept any excuse for a fight, but most of the presidents were deep enough thinkers to look beyond the immediate situation.
aussiesmurf,
Loved those Keill Randor books to death as a kid.
The problem with the Presidents uniting is too many chiefs not enough Indians. Is any President going to accept another as his leader or turn his back on one?
Even if it works I think the result would be a bunch of middle-aged to elderly guys sitting around for a day or two till hunger and thirst set in.
Anyway I’m waiting for President Knife Fight: the Motion Picture, I would watch the heck out of that.
People have underestimated the President because in 2008 he had the unbelievably difficult task of running against a Senate colleague who had the entire national press on his side and extremely high personal approval ratings. My impression is that the President is by nature a very thoughtful and composed person, but that was the equivalent of a highwire act over Niagara Falls while spinning plates and reciting Shakespeare in the original Klingon while onlookers threw rotten fruit.
None of that applies this time, by the way. That’s one of the reasons I’m looking forward to the presidential debates. I really want to see what happens when the gloves come off.
Anyway, I haven’t read too many Star Trek novels, but I really enjoyed ‘The Impossible Planet,’ by Forever War author Joe Haldeman. I remember it having some interesting hard SF trappings. (He only wrote two Star Trek novels, the other one ‘Planet of Judgement’ I remember being more Star Treky, with some nice character moments)
Sigh…okay, after checking on Amazon, that should actually be ‘World Without End,’ not the Impossible Planet.
Stupid brain.
Rutherford B Hayes? Really?
And for a Next-Gen book recommendation: Dark Mirror.
Everything by Diane Duane. In particular the whole Rihannsu series (including The Wounded Sky and Spock’s World), but don’t neglect her standalones.
Everything by Diane Duane ever, to be honest. Which reminds me: the new Millennium edition of So You Want To Be A Wizard is out, must pick that up.
It’s interesting what kind of balance people strike when thinking about this. If you want to be entirely realistic, no one in that stadium will believe they, personally, deserve to live more than any other person. If any did (looking at you, George W.), fear of retaliation would stay their hand. They same would hold true of just about ANY group of sane adults, not just presidents.
Jackson might throw that off a bit, admittedly. I think at worst some of the tougher guys like Lincoln would disarm and subdue him. Then they’d all conspire to escape, Achewood-style, with the men who already lived and died sacrificing themselves if need be for the sake of men with a full (original) life still ahead of them.
@RossW: “…or slightly more racist (Washington? Wilson?)”
Wilson, just slightly? /jawdrops
Hey, just wanted to let you know: thanks to this article, I downloaded the Kindle edition of Kobayashi Maru last night, and finished it about an hour ago. And it was awesome.
Thanks.
As to Star trek novels, anything by Peter David. Q-Squared is probably my favorite Trek novel.
But WHICH Lincoln are they dealing with? “Regular” Lincoln, or “Vampire Hunter” Abe Lincoln? Hmmm??
I assume that, baring total revolt, the fight is a “last man standing” sort of deal, right?
If so; even if Obama, much as I admire him, managed to form some sort of Survivor-esque presidential tribe, (which in and of itself is unlikely considering the racial views of a large number of the earlier presidents, as RossW pointed out)he would still need to overpower and kill at least one or more presidents to win. Frankly, he is not the most likely to do that, especially if he has Teddy and Jackson to go against.
Also,don’t we kinda have to accept that presidents will be shanking each other in a “Presidential Knife-Fight To The DEATH”? I mean, it’s not as interesting to picture a hypothetical President fight where the winner is the last one to dehydrate to death.
Obama wouldn’t lose because he’s too nice but because he’s too black. Racial equality is so recent that only JFK and after could actually see the man as a full equal.
On the other hand, I’m pretty sure Obama knows better than the rest all of their various strengths and weaknesses and personality quirks.
On the other hand, since it’s fantasy presidents ANYWAY, let’s swap our Earth-Prime Obama for the Earth-23 black Superman Obama expy from Action Comics 9!
@Mark Temporis:
Would probably still lose to Earth Prime Teddy Roosevelt.
Obama’s a lawyer. Getting the other Presidents to form a coalition to reach a consensus on how not to fight to the death would be within the rules set forth, even if it violates the spirit of said rules.
At which point Takeshi Kitano throws a knife into Hayes’ skull, and soon after detonates an explosive collar around Clinton’s throat. And every three minutes without a death thereafter, someone is randomly killed.
Now Obama has to fight. Or die!
Uh huh. That’s cool MGK but I don’t like it. I mean if we’re going to go “they’d never do that” with it, we could just as well say “it’s an impossible situation” and invalidate any discussion whatsoever. I prefer that they’re all determined to knife fight and that they’ve all accepted only one will survive. That said, why is everybody just glossing over Washington? Just because he probably didn’t have that ruthless gene Jackson or teddy had, doesnt mean he wasn’t a badass. I mean by all accounts Washington was big for his time, and in good shape. He wasnt some dainty intellectual like Jackson, his occupation was soldier and farmer. Plus, I bet Washington knew more about close quarters combat than anybody else on that list. Plus, psychological factor. He’s George flippin Washington. Somebody is going to hesitate. Washington is the sleeper everybody forgets about but seems so obvious after he ends out on top.
Also, really? You think nixons a threat? Nixon seems like he’d burn out early and everybody would take him out first. Also, do they take part at the age of their presidency or their peak knife fighting age?
@Dio:
As for Washington, I don’t think he’s a “sleeper” anything; he is always one of the top ranked presidents whether people are talking about knife-fighting or dog-loving, so not ranking him in the top three seems unconventional right there. And the psychological factor would help him, but if we’re already assuming the premise, I don’t think it would take him all the way.
As for Nixon, the idea isn’t that he’s in great physical condition so much that he would fight dirty. Maybe literally stab people in the back, maybe only figuratively, maybe just be really tenacious and take his killer down with him.
As for fighting condition, the link in the OP specifies that they’re assuming the presidents are in the top physical condition they had while in office. So FDR is still wheelchair-bound and JFK has Addison’s and none of them are still in the middle of their time in the armed forces, but none of them have debilitating dementia or gaping bullet wounds either.
I have a copy of this book on my shelf. Nice to know I’m not the only one.
@cyrus
Sorry this may be sloppy, I’m on my cell. I still don’t buy Nixon. Wasn’t he one of the oldest presidents to take office, or am I misremembering that? I give credence to what you’re saying about backstabbing and whatnot, but does that win the competition? The way I see it, thee almost certainly has to be teams that break off to survive the beginning onslaught. I just don’t think nixons a team player. He’d do something to get on somebody’s bad side or let his pride get in the way. Sure, he has the potential to be a bastard, but a particularly successful bastard?
Also i got the impression that washington was overlooked from what little I saw from the link. If I was mistaken, I apologize. I’m just saying that Jackson and teddy aren’t sho-ins.
@dirge83 Obama being a Lawyer isn’t that special. It was actually easier to count the number of Presidents not listed as lawyers here than the other way round 17 non lawyers, so 26 lawyers.
My favorite wildcard? Lincoln. Outdoorsman. Lanky. Had some health problems, but he’s at his peak going up against a bunch of old men. Why can’t Lincoln win?
I am way too interested in this discussion
Don’t count Carter out just ’cause he’s a nice guy who wasn’t all that well-liked as President.
He wasn’t just a Navy man, he wasn’t just a submariner, he was also the officer in charge of the U.S. part of the team sent in to disassemble & seal off a Canadian nuclear reactor after a meltdown, and was one of the men who *went inside the reactor* to use hand tools to do the job. (Q.v. NRX incident at Chalk River Labs, Ont., 1952) How many of the others would have the guts to do that themselves rather than simply order someone else to do it?
If you liked “Uhura’s Song”, I strongly recommend you track down the other two novels by Janet Kagan, before her career was tragically cut short by illness.
They are “Hellspark” (which, in the most recent edition, includes a nice little retrospective on the writing of “Uhura’s Song”) and “Mirabile” (which is actually more a collection of novellas tied together with a bit of extra text).
“Mirabile” is one of my top three books, and one of those that I re-read about once a year by accident – pick it up to refresh myself on some particular bit of it, and before I know it I’ve read the whole thing again.
I also highly recommend the original series novelisations (or rather, collections of novellas) by James Blish – they were some of the first great short form SF that I encountered in my school library, and I have such strong memories of some of them that I often found watching the actual episodes they were based on to be faintly disappointing.
(I had a somewhat rural childhood – I read the novelisations of most great 70s/80s SF films well before I ever saw them. And a surprising number of the best of those are written by Alan Dean Foster.)
“Also, do they take part at the age of their presidency or their peak knife fighting age?”
They’re in their peak shape, while president. So everyone is middle-aged to elderly.
My question is how much do they know about each other?
Obviously Obama knows all of them, but is their knowledge only up to the point of their peak physical condition (while president) or up to their deaths or beyond?
Do they know names? Parties? Short bios?
Without that knowledge alliances become much more interesting with (for example) Nixon trying to saw folks while Ford-Obama scream ‘don’t trust him!’
I’ve always felt like the scenario Chekov faced was total bullshit.
Yes, we’re dealing with cadets here, not full-fledged Starfleet officers. But its been established repeatedly that the Federation by the time of Kirk (and especially by the time of Picard and Sisko) was incredibly utopian (not always in a good way) and that they regarded that sort of unchecked aggression with horror, viewing it as a form of mental illness.
And to top it off, this is Starfleet we’re dealing with, where men and women are trained to shoot LAST, where its drummed into them from day one that Starfleet, despite the ranks and uniform and discipline, does not consider itself a military organization and regards its military mission as the least important of its priorities.
The reaction to what happened in the Chekov scenario shouldn’t have been “you all lose, but you learn a valuable lesson.” It should have been “You people are a bunch of twisted psychopaths straight out of the dark ages of the 20th century. We are shocked you all managed to conceal it for so long. You not only fail, you’re being drummed out of the Academy, and you will all probably be under close observation for the rest of your natural lives.”
if all the Presidents knew that the men with them were legitimately real presidents in the future I think most would look past racism when dealing with Obama. Adams family were big time anti-slavery. And they wouldn’t have issue with sharing authority or anything. THey’d all been underlings.
@Murc: I don’t know if this is relevant or not, but in the “forward” to the Star Trek: TMP novelization, written by Admiral James T. Kirk (by no less a person than Gene Roddenberry) establishes that Starfleet actively recruits and accepts applicants that aren’t utopian pacifists. Longish quote:
“[Starfleet Officers] are a highly conservative and strongly individualistic group. The old customs die hard with us. We submit ourselves to starship discipline because we know it is made necessary by the realities of deep-space exploration. We are proud that each of us has accepted this discipline voluntarily—and doubly proud
when neither temptation nor jeopardy is able to shake our obedience to the oath we have taken.
“Some critics have characterized us of starfleet as “primitives,” and with some justification. In some ways, we do resemble our forebears of a couple of centuries ago more than we do most people today. We are not part of those increasingly large numbers of humans who seem willing to submerge their
own identities into the groups to which they belong. I am prepared to accept the possibility that these so-called new humans represent a more highly evolved breed, capable of finding rewards in group consciousness that we more primitive individuals will never know. For the present, however, this new breed of human makes a poor space traveler, and Starfleet must depend on us “primitives” for deep space exploration.
“It seems an almost absurd claim that we “primitives” make better space travelers than the highly evolved, superbly intelligent and adaptable new humans.
The reason for this paradox is best explained in a Vulcan study of Starfleet’s early years during which vessel disappearances, crew defections, and
mutinies had brought deep space exploration to a near halt. This once controversial report diagnosed those mysterious losses as being caused directly by the fact that Starfleet’s recruitment standards were dangerously high. That is, Starfleet Academy cadets were then being selected from applicants having the highest possible test scores on all categories of intelligence and adaptability. Understandably, it was believed that such qualities would be
helpful in dealing with the unusually varied life patterns which starship crews encounter during deep space exploration.
“Something of the opposite turned out to be true. The problem was that sooner or later starship crew members must inevitably deal with life forms more evolved and advanced than their own. The result was that these superbly intelligent and flexible minds being sent out by Starfleet could not help but be seduced eventually by the higher philosophies, aspirations, and consciousness levels being encountered.”
It goes on to mention that Kirk’s Starfeet class was the first with these new ‘primitive’ standards. Kirk’s already a captain by the time Chekov is in Starfleet Academy, so maybe that’s exactly the sort of qualities they are looking for.
@squishydish: As someone who grew up watching Here Come the Brides reruns, I loved Ishmael unreservedly and without shame.
Presidential Knife Fight is an awesome idea. I’d watch that movie (or more likely, read the webcomic).
I’m also interested by the ideas floated above about vampire hunter Lincoln and President Superman. How about a death match between the most badass fictional Presidents? We’d have, just off the top of my head, a Superman, a vampire hunter, and Nixon in his incarnation as the head of the Secret Empire, and at least one version of Captain America. That could be fun.
And you guys have me really tempted to get a copy of the Kobayashi Maru to read.
@John 2.0-
I’d never seen that foreword before. It’s wonderfully written, but it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
Admittedly, it was written back before the vast majority of Trek canon had been established, but I kind of question the idea that Starfleet is regularly encountering more advanced civilizations than its own. Where ARE these races, and why were they gobbling up ships at such a ferocious rate?
That notwithstanding, there’s a difference between not being a utopian pacifist and people who turn on each other in an orgy of simulated killing with very little provocation. Given the values it espouses, I can’t see Starfleet seeing said people as prime recruits or officer materiel.
@Murc:
Undoubtedly, the forward is deeply weird (it obliquely references slash fiction, and suggests that the Star Trek TV series is actually a fictional Starfleet propaganda piece based on the actual Enterprise 5-year mission), but it IS written by Gene himself, so I think it speaks to his original vision.
Anyway, the KM’s publication date is November 1, 1989. I don’t know how long it take took to write, but if you assume 6 months to a year from idea to publication, that means it’s only a year and some months into TNG.
I don’t think TOS is all that utopian, at least outside of the long-established Federation planets. There’s slavery, there’s a stratified (and sometimes brutal) economy, there’s piracy. TOS is very much a wild frontier kind of place.
Where are the way more advanced civilizations? Everywhere. How many energy creatures, space ‘gods’, or ancient civilizations Kirk run into? What would Q do to a bunch of starry-eyed space hippies?
SilverHammerMan- I challenge the idea that the most Badass version of Nixon was the Secret Empire one, and not say, Futurama’s Nixon’s head on a giant killer robot.
@Enlight_bystand: Other Presidents have legal backgrounds and might “rules lawyer” the fight as well, but the OP was talking about why we shouldn’t count Obama out.
@DistantFred – Robot Nixon would certainly win! Although if we start working in fictional takes on Presidents things could get insane very quickly. The Progenitor RPG setting for instance had LBJ as a secret mind controller, while Marvel’s New Universe had Reagan as a super tough superhero (Teflon). And I’m pretty sure there’s a story or two (or two thousand) out there about ghostly versions of various Presidents that come back to kick butt.
Here’s a couple of other things to remember about Teddy Roosevelt (who is my odds-on favorite in this discussion).
* in terms of racism: for a man whose formative years were in the 19th century after the Civil War, TR was surprisingly progressive. One of his early acts after assuming the presidency was to invite Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House; for this he incurred a firestorm of negative press and was vilified in the South. He was reportedly bewildered by this reaction, and initially wanted to defy it (paraphrasing, but: “I’ll invite anyone I damn well please to dine at the White House!”), yet in fact, he eventually bowed to public pressure on the issue. IIRC he continued to consult BTW, but never again gave a black man a dining invitation.
TR’s record on racial relations is overshadowed, understandably so, by his actions during the Brownsville affair. And his views weren’t uniformly progressive. But based on the above, I’m just saying, he’s an example of a pre-JFK president whose racial views do not automatically make him dismissive of Obama. (In fact, I think TR tended to subscribe to the doctrine of exceptionalism — which is to say, he had an overall negative view of “black people”, but he believed in the idea that individuals could achieve great things. Thus his regard for BTW, and I think he would be inclined to view Obama exactly the same way.)
* in terms of physical peak and closeness to his military service — TR’s signature “charge up San Juan hill” happened in 1898. He became president in 1901, at the age of 43. It was in that same year, when big-game hunting in the Rockies, that TR got down from his horse and used his knife to stab a cougar to death (in order, as he said, to prevent it from killing one of the hunting dogs he had with him).
* the incident in which TR was shot on his way to give a campaign speech, and then refused medical attention and gave a 90 minute speech with the bullet still in his chest (it was never actually removed), occured almost 10 years later, when he was 54.
So really, if you’re dealing with the 43 year old President TR? Good luck. I say “stabbing a wild cougar to death” is good experience for “dealing with Andrew Jackson”.
(It amazes me that there are folks over in the OP’s comment thread who advance the theory that TR is “all talk, no action” or that his prowess was somehow completely a PR thing rather than real. Dude, I’m sorry, but most of his accomplishments had ample witnesses.)
I’m basically of the mind that if you’re going to engage in this exercise, you have to accept the idea that all of the Presidents would indeed kill each other in the end, as much against their individual characters as it might be. That’s the terms. Once you start getting into the idea of, “which ones would try to build coalitions” and so on, it’s really a fairly different thought-exercise. Not a bad one, but quite a different one.
I think the first woman shadow president wins (Eleanor).
a) she is bad ass (she was running gauntlets of violent racism in the south after her puppet was out of office)
b) she would be underestimated due to standing behind the wheelchair “president” – the element of surprise matters a ton in a knife fight
c) as a woman, she would be both underestimated and a reluctant target
I don’t know, Eleanor had a face that could haunt a house, I strongly suspect that one of the more superstitious presidents would mistake her for a witch and kill her fairly early on.
As anyone who’s ever read a comic book can tell you, they’d fight but then team up to overcome the greater threat.
Regarding the Chekov scenario clashing with evolved Starfleet morals —
They’re not actually fighting to the death. It’s a game. They know it’s a game. Moreover, they are command cadets, and thus rather insanely driven to excel, and know they’re being graded on this. If they didn’t do everything possible to win, they’d be very poor cadets indeed.
And by the way, the story is brilliant because everyone doesn’t immediately start shooting the fuck out of each other, it’s a slow degeneration out of paranoia. And the ending actually works exactly because going hyper-aggressive and shooting everyone is not what Starfleet’s about. The instructors slap the cadets in the face with that; it’s the entire point. Their orders were “survive for three days” and they needed the learning experience that the way to do that is through mutual cooperation, not climbing over the corpses of everyone else.
Everyone’s forgetting that Obama, as the only Marvel fan president, has probably read Secret Wars I and II, so he’s the only one going into this prepped for being abducted by alien super-beings and forced to fight to the death.
He’s also at the younger end of the president age spectrum, and has the benefit of having grown up with the best medical technology of any living president, i.e. he never lived in an age when cocaine was proscribed for colicky babies or humors were bled. And have you seen his shirtless pics? Dude’s not exactly flabby even at 50.
It’s a joke to think his centrist/compromising politics make him a “weak” man in a personal survival setting. He grew up black in America, for fuck’s sake.
But really, the Marvel thing is going to put him ahead. Research would pay off, at least until the shadowy figure responsible for the knife-fights reveals himself to be Vladimir Putin and they have a shirtless duel to the death on a flaming mountain peak.
(I think Putin would win that one. Even vs Teddy.)
@DistantFred
Does Futurama Nixon count as the same person as 20th Century Nixon? Because I would pay money to see Secret Empire Nixon team up with his insane future counterpart.
@SilverHammerMan: I think when discussing any incarnation of Richard Nixon “insane” is implied.
Andy- I’m glad you clarified, because if the game was set up as it sounded in the original post then it’s a test the instructors fail. Because it sounded like they were told their was a confirmed spy in their midst who was going to try to kill them. And if that wasn’t the case then you should be pointing your phaser at the guy who gave you the false info.
Just read the Kindle novel… thanks for the recommendation!
I’ve always wondered how plausible it was that the test was kept a secret, yet still a common-ish reference point (at least in Star Fleet.)
Combined with the novel having Admiral Howell tell Kirk that you can take it as many times as you want but “no one’s taken this test twice in over twenty years”… well, it was a rough point in a good novel, because it seems like every wanna-be captain would be the competitive, get back on the horse type.
I did like how when Kirk studies military history, only one or so of the the 4 or 5 historical commanders he studies is from 20th Century or before (Custer)… a great break from how so many characters in so many of the series have a suspicious blank spot in their cultural interests stretching from late-20th century to right around their “present”