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Johnny Oso said on July 19th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

I can’t tell if this thing is a moderately well done fake or what.

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“reprimanding all of us who might believe that Omar Khadr be given such trivialities as “due process” and “an actual trial.””

If you weren’t such a demagogue, you could have realized that any country could legally detain any enemy combatant until the cessation of hostilities. But who gives a shit about facts if demagoguery makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

Also, we would like to profusely apologize for not conforming to your Muslim stereotypes. Starting tomorrow, we’ll add infidel beheadings to our daily routine. We’ll be honored if you agree to be a candidate for our first beheading.

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I humbly suggest that implying you wish the death of someone who disagrees with you on the treatment of a boy who may not actually have committed a crime, is NOT the best way to represent your organization.

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Abner Cadaver said on July 19th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

“… you could have realized that any country could legally detain any enemy combatant until the cessation of hostilities.”

I believe this is called being a ‘prisoner of war’, and involves things called ‘the Geneva Conventions’.

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But who gives a shit about facts if demagoguery makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
Those are the rules you live by, eh?

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How politically insecure does your American political group have to feel to believe that 2.1 paragraphs of snark from a Canadian comics nerd merits an immediate response?

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Look, a troll! I attempt to grapple it!

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01d55: Excuse me, I am far more than just a comics nerd. I am also a movie and TV and modern dance nerd. I am a man of many layers. Less so, since I started dieting.

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Since the U.S. goverment insists the 3rd Geneva Convention (and thus POW status) does not apply to these detainees, therefore the 4th Geneva Convetion (rights of civilians) must apply, according to GCIV, Article 4.

From Article 4 of the 4th Geneva Convention:
“Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals. … Persons protected by the [3rd] Geneva Convention… shall not be considered as protected persons within the meaning of the present Convention.”

And therefore, all of the following apply:

From Article 5 of the 4th Geneva Convention:
“Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.

“In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.”

And from GCIV, Art. 27:
“Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity.”

And GCIV, Art. 31:
“No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties.”

And GCIV, Art. 37:
“Protected persons who are confined pending proceedings or serving a sentence involving loss of liberty, shall during their confinement be humanely treated. ”

And GCIV, Art. 43:
“Any protected person who has been interned or placed in assigned residence shall be entitled to have such action reconsidered as soon as possible by an appropriate court or administrative board designated by the Detaining Power for that purpose. If the internment or placing in assigned residence is maintained, the court or administrative board shall periodically, and at least twice yearly, give consideration to his or her case, with a view to the favourable amendment of the initial decision, if circumstances permit.”

Or how about GCIV, Art. 49?
“Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.”

And GCIV, Art. 71:
“No sentence shall be pronounced by the competent courts of the Occupying Power except after a regular trial.

“Accused persons who are prosecuted by the Occupying Power shall be promptly informed, in writing, in a language which they understand, of the particulars of the charges preferred against them, and shall be brought to trial as rapidly as possible.”

And GCIV, Art. 78:
“If the Occupying Power considers it necessary, for imperative reasons of security, to take safety measures concerning protected persons, it may, at the most, subject them to assigned residence or to internment.

“Decisions regarding such assigned residence or internment shall be made according to a regular procedure to be prescribed by the Occupying Power in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention. This procedure shall include the right of appeal for the parties concerned. Appeals shall be decided with the least possible delay. In the event of the decision being upheld, it shall be subject to periodical review, if possible every six months, by a competent body set up by the said Power.”

In other words, the detainees have the right to due process and a speedy, fair trial (too late on the first part); and if found guilty, then let them serve their sentence. Even war criminals must be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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From the gut (and to Godwin it up) . . . we gave the fucking NAZIS a trial.

If we ain’t treating some kid better than we’ve treated the guys who get top billing as “most evil motherfuckers of the 20th century” then . . . well, I don’t really want to think too hard there.

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malakim2099 said on July 20th, 2008 at 1:48 am

Everyone deserves a fair trial. Period.

Really, I see this as a sad statement as to how far my native land has sunk, where someone getting a fair trial is worthy of “debate”. There should be NO DEBATE ABOUT THIS MATTER!

What are the immigration rules for Canada again? :(

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Excuse me, I am far more than just a comics nerd. I am also a movie and TV and modern dance nerd. I am a man of many layers. Less so, since I started dieting.

A point well taken – clearly, you are a man to be feared*.

*Less so, since you started dieting.

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How exactly do you go about being a Muslim while being against the rules that define what makes someone a Muslim?

Its a religion not a ethnicity. Arabs/Persians/Middle Easterners/North Africans/etc Against Sharia I could see. Or is this like how Satanists are basically Negative Catholics?

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Rob Brown said on July 20th, 2008 at 6:38 am

If you weren’t such a demagogue, you could have realized that any country could legally detain any enemy combatant until the cessation of hostilities.

You idiot. Hostilities against whom, and by whom? There are always going to be people out there, members of this group or that group, who will want to attack the U.S. or some representative of that country. Are you suggesting that everybody be imprisoned until there is NOBODY left in the world who wishes ill on the U.S.?

There is never going to be a cessation of these kinds of hostilities, so you are suggesting a life sentence without a trial. That is why you are an idiot.

As for Khadr, it’s not important what his family believes, it’s not important what other members of his family have done, it’s not important what he believes either (whatever that may be). The only thing that is relevant is whether he committed the crime he is accused of. Like everybody, he deserves a fair trial and even if he is guilty there are certain types of treatment that are unacceptable even if the victim is guilty of a crime.

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Lurker Without – “How exactly do you go about being a Muslim while being against the rules that define what makes someone a Muslim?”

That’s exactly what I was thinking, and the main thing that makes me think this website isn’t on the up and up.

Andrew – “From the gut (and to Godwin it up) . . . we gave the fucking NAZIS a trial.

If we ain’t treating some kid better than we’ve treated the guys who get top billing as “most evil motherfuckers of the 20th century” then . . . well, I don’t really want to think too hard there.”

Excellent post. That really should be the last word on this issue.

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JustinCognito said on July 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Dear MASH:

If you really want to encourage a nice, proper debate on what Islam is and isn’t, you might not want to CALL EVERYONE WHO CRITICIZES YOU A FUCKING IDIOT.

I love the smell of Astroturf in the morning.

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Funny that an organization saying that Islam is Light and Love is so belligerent towards its critics (and has one contributor whose masthead says of the Israel/Palestine conflict, THERE IS NO DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION: THERE IS ONLY A MILITARY SOLUTION.) Lots of love and peace there.

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Andrew: Unless I’m mistaken, doesn’t Godwin’s Law only apply if it’s an unwarranted or hyperbolic comparison? If I’m right, then you don’t need to worry. Your comparison is valid.

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Heh, and here was me thinking those idiots had essentially gone away…. faint hope of that happening I guess.

Nice to see that they’ve maintained their quality of civility and discourse.

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