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mygif

So either she recklessly endangered the life of her near-born child, or she made up a story about endangering her near-born child to protect her family’s reputation? Either way, she doesn’t sound like the sharpest tack in the box. I feel like the recent Edwards saga should have been sufficient warning to McCain to steer clear of anyone with possible child-begetting scandals.

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mygif

Personally, I’m hoping Obama hits her on the whole ‘using power to fire sister’s ex-husband’ scandal and attacks McCain for saying Obama’s inexperienced.

We can totally hope

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mygif

Wow. I don’t know much about Palin, but everytime I read something about her I like her less. Regarding your questions, my answer is yes in both cases. Maybe she lied for a good cause, though: to protect the identity of some girl and addopt a non-wanted child, for example. But I don’t think so. I just don’t trust megachristian antienviromental (i.e. republican) politicians.

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mygif
Dave Silva said on August 30th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

Wait a sec, she has FIVE KIDS? How can a person who’s had four kids spend eight hours in labor? o_O

Hell, I was mom’s fourth child and I basically popped out of her a few minutes after labor began!

This doesn’t make any sense. Is it absolutely certain that she wrote that story, or could it be a PR screwup?

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mygif

The only thing I care about is the fact that she’s a bible-humper that turned out to be a lamer duck than Jesse Ventura was. But, the more people press her on the smaller lies, the more likely she’ll pop out and say something Quayle-ish by the middle of October. Then all will be right in the world again.

I just wish these right wing nutjobs would stop calling it a historic move. Mondale chose a female VP in 1984. What’s the big deal? Where’s the history?

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mygif
malakim2099 said on August 30th, 2008 at 10:17 pm

It’s historic because… um, at least Ferraro had some experience on the national stage?

Whereas Palin has none whatsoever! ;)

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mygif

I honestly don’t care about the kid (I’ve a cousin that was adopted by one aunt because the OTHER aunt would have become an underaged single mom), except that if it’s true those that were supposed to vet her should all be fired.

My concern is that she has nowhere near enough experience to be the president should anything happen to McCain. Seriously, this situation isn’t “The Contender (2000)” and it isn’t “Commander in Chief (2005)” – it’s about someone that REALLY can’t be said to have learned enough to do the job well if called upon to do it.

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mygif

Yeah, that story has been making me go man WHAT? since I heard it. No responsible (or frankly, sane) woman would get on a plane while she is in labor, much less *premature* labor, much less premature labor with a child who already is known to be compromised (Down’s syndrome babies often have heart issues, for example), unless they *wanted* their baby to die.

It seems to be presented as a “oh, she’s so tough, admire her!”. It’s not tough — she’s either fucked in the head, just stupid, or was hoping the kid would die. Or lying about *something.*

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mygif

I just wish these right wing nutjobs would stop calling it a historic move. Mondale chose a female VP in 1984. What’s the big deal? Where’s the history?

The GOP has never been so desperate as to believe a female veep candidate would be needed to draw in the millions of Hillary supporters. I’d continue, but Samantha Bee covered it too well last night on The Daily Show. But just in case people are that stupid to vote for McCain . . . do you know of any good places to live, Chris? Particularly in your neck of the woods?

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mygif

Hmm. Parent lying to protect 15 (estimating age of onset of pregnancy) year old daughter from backlash of being pregnant teenager. Keep in mind that good or ill, Alaska has a lot of small town to it. Having a kid at that age is tough and has the real potential to put a serious dent in a kid’s future. If that’s the case, I’m not sure I’m going to fault her. It’s a tough spot to be in on both ends. It’s real easy to armchair quarter back this one.

I think it’s a non-issue. It ranks for me up there with arguments that Obama isn’t qualified to be president because he lived overseas and isn’t “American” enough. It’s the worst kind of race/gender politics. Focus on issues of substance. Jimmy Carter only had four years of executive experience when he ran for the White House. At this point in time if Obama is experienced enough to be president, I figure Palin is not far off. I’m not voting for the VP. I’m voting one way or the other for the primary candidate.

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mygif

I don’t this it *should* be an issue, but it’s likely it *will* be an issue. The American Media loves to make scandals out of everything and judge people on their personal lives.

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mygif

1. In many cases, lying and covering up are likely to get one in more trouble than just coming clean in the first place would, regardless of how painful the truth is. (q.v. Bill Clinton, Scooter Libby, and everyone else indicted for perjury or obstruction related to something that very well may not have been illegal in the first place.)

2. Abuse of power is abuse of power, regardless of one’s justifications, and if proven should have serious negative consequences. (“The ends don’t justify the means” and “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”) However, her case is still under investigation, so the investigator could determine that she did nothing wrong or that there is insufficient evidence to indict. So it could turn out to be completely irrelevant, or it could be very relevant, but it currently is somewhere in between, making it a cause for concern, but not (yet) something to hold against her. (It would be very relevant if she really did it, because: there are proper channels and legal hoops to go through when accusing someone of domestic abuse; especially in cases where personal interest is involved, one must be careful to keep a good paper trail before firing someone; and therefore, if the allegations are true, this would be strong evidence of a similar pattern to that shown by the current Federal Executive Branch of ignoring the rule of law when said laws are inconvenient to one’s personal desires.

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mygif

But, the more people press her on the smaller lies, the more likely she’ll pop out and say something Quayle-ish by the middle of October.

Will this do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oro2Yh9HoEM 2:50ish.

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mygif

In this case, it seems like going after someone for jay-walking, when there wasn’t even any cars within two miles, in the dead of night. Of all of the things people could go after, this just seems ridiculous.

What real issue’s getting glossed over because people are overanalyzing this?

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mygif

I’d damn well say it IS important, especially for someone who runs on a platform of abstinence, when her daughter gets pregnant, that’s about it for her. And with someone as (relatively) high-profile as she is, I”m surprised she thinks she can get away with faking pregnancy.

Then again, whether or not it’s actually substantiated isn’t enough. There are enough people (for example) that think that Obama is a Muslim to make at least some difference, tiny though it may be. And that is proven to be false. This is going to be a lot more buzz, especially since it’s a lot more believable. Plus, it’s easy to hype up this rumor. I heard someone talking about it being an -incestuous- baby. Now THAT would make good teevee.

The real question is: Shouldn’t McCain’s party have figured this out and realized NOT to ask her to be his VP? I mean, really!

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mygif

It really comes down to this: McCain’s ass old. If he kicks it we’re stuck with whoever is on the ticket with him. Is she a person you would want to be your president when the inevitable heart attack/stroke during sex with an intern happens? Could she handle it? The presidency, not the sex. Her sexual prowess isn’t really an issue…unless she’s the one with McCain when the stroke occurs. Then you have the “VP Assassinates President McCain with Vagina” headlines to deal with. Of course if that happened it could work to our advantage in foreign affairs. “Stop your invasion of that country our our president will come and sex you up!”

Ridiculous? Of course. But the whole process is ridiculous. I can’t even watch the news without laughing hysterically at all the baldfaced bullshit that’s being thrown around and everyone eating it up like it’s chocolate- especially the media. No wonder the Daily Show is given so much respect by my generation. At least they call the bullshit for what it is. Candidates, no matter who, will say and do whatever it takes to get the job, then do whatever the hell they/the party wants once they’re in office. The rest is all a show- Like Jerry Springer only without the thrown chairs and the thought for the day at the end. I mean, we’ve got a “baby’s momma” story already! Democrats, republicans, it’s all a show, and in the end we’re the ones that pay for it.

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mygif

” Having a kid at that age is tough and has the real potential to put a serious dent in a kid’s future. ”

Supposedly the daughter was out of school with ‘mono’ for 6 months or more. Then Mom turns up with an additional baby. Honestly, I don’t think anyone in the daughter’s school would be fooled. Alaska’s birth rate among mothers 15-19 (ie number of births per 1000 girls that age) is similar to that of California, so it’s not like the phenomenon is unheard of there.

What bugs me about this, if it’s true, is that Palin is anti-abortion, but she has behaved in *precisely* the shame-driven manner that pushes girls to have abortions. Especially girls whose parents aren’t governor. All credit to Palin for adopting the baby and letting her daughter get on with her life, I have no problem with those things. It’s the implication that her idea of teen sexual health and reproduction policy is “sweep it under the rug and pretend it never happened”.

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mygif

“The real question is: Shouldn’t McCain’s party have figured this out and realized NOT to ask her to be his VP? I mean, really!”

Honestly, I expect they never asked. If you meet a 44 year old woman with a Down’s syndrome baby, you’re probably just going to assume it’s hers and not push.

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mygif

Really? I mean, I can tell the campaign is run badly, but as far as political campaigning go, the conservatives are -anything- but stupid. Besides, what people have been able to piece together in about two days based on family pictures and flawed testimonial should have been easily discovered by the probes that should have vetted her before this all happened. Even if it -isn’t- true, the fact that there’s even an imaginary scandal like this is just so outrageously confusing to me.

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mygif

I’m with you; I really can’t decide whether this ought to matter or not. It seems very likely that she’s raising her grandchild as her own child. That means she’s lying, and if she’s a ‘family values’ candidate it makes her a hypocrite. But it doesn’t reflect on her ability to do her job, or suggest that she’s normally a deceitful person. She acted in what her values tell her were the best interests of her daughter.

It amuses me greatly that this was a plot in Desperate Housewives, where Republican NRA-member Bree faked a pregnancy to cover up her unmarried teen daughter’s pregnancy.

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mygif

Wait a second!

That’s it! That’s why the nominated her! The GOP KNEW about this from the start and knew it would be discovered in days. And then all the womenfolk – who LOVE Desperate Houswives would go “Wow! She’s just like Bree! I’m totally voting for McCain now!”

(/irony off)

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mygif

Or, to make things a bit more sinister, the GOP knew about this from the start, knew it would be discovered in days, and COUNTED on it to distract people from Troopergate, Palin’s war on polar bears, her husband’s role as shadow governor, and all the other things that REALLY make her look bad.

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mygif

“If you meet a 44 year old woman with a Down’s syndrome baby, you’re probably just going to assume it’s hers and not push.”

I’ve heard McCain only actually met her once, back in April, at a governors breakfast function or something.

As for the story: that’s just crazy. I hadn’t heard about it, but now that I know the facts, it seems entirely likely the rumors are true. Something is fishy in Alaska, and it ain’t just the commercial boats, apparently.

But does it, or should it, change anything? I don’t think so. I thought she was batshit crazy to begin with and still think so now. Her views on abortion and creation were enough to dissuade me, nevermind that I tend to think the presidents of some college’s student councils probably have more “executive” experience than this woman does. Alaska is a state, certainly, but if I’m not mistaken, it’s also one with a population less than Brooklyn, nevermind other states. I think we’d be better off noting the choice for what it is: the desperate gamble of a scared man who, should he get elected and survive his first term, will have exceeded life expectancy by a solid year. We should have recognized his “bomb-bomb-Iran” comment as the early signs of senility it probably was.

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mygif

I’ve been wrong before, but anyone who’s willing to offer 3-1 or better odds on her not even being on the ticket come November, get at me.

–d

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mygif

Okay. I had my labor pains start in the morning and had my first child less than 12 hours later. OMG THE PAIN. Thank god for the epidural.

It does not seem believable that a woman pregnant with her fifth child, who would be a special-needs child, would possibly get on a plane after experiencing labor contractions, whether or not her water had broken.

If she gave a speech after her water broke, she must have been wearing Depends. Seriously.

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mygif

It took my mother 48 hours to give birth to me. I guess it would depend on the size of the child, but the whole story seems fishy to me as well.

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mygif
Charlotte said on August 31st, 2008 at 2:32 pm

The fishy part is that her water broke before she went back. Despite what movies say, water breaking is actually quite an advanced stage of labour. For many women, it happens moments before delivery. I don’t believe for two seconds that she could delay labour for six hours AFTER water breaking, especially on a 5th child and ESPECIALLY on an airplane. It ain’t happenin’.

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mygif

Actually, after some further research, the official story is even weirder; it’s that she woke up to find her water had already broken but then went and delivered the keynote speech anyway, and only then got on her flight. Also, Trig was born at 6:30 am, which means Palin is purporting to have been in labor for more than a day.

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mygif

Parents lying to protect 15 year old daughter, that I totally understand. Grandparents formally adopting grandchild born by 15 year old daughter, that I totally understand. Parents/grandparents lying so that Mom’s political career would no go down the dumper, that I understand, too, but not in a good way.

The Palins name their kids after where they were conceived, correct? Maybe that means the 5th child was conceived in trigonometry class…

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mygif

I’m an alaskan who has met sarah palin numerous times (I worked for a news agency). As cool as it would be to have McCain miss a heartbeat and have the first alaskan president, the truth of the matter is that I didn’t even vote for her for governor.

The hometown she wasw mayor of? around 3000 people, and undoubtedly the white trash capital of the north. just something to think about.

Oh, and she’s crazy. seriously. (Then again, she’s the only alaskan elected oficial to currently be without some sort of corruption allegations).

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mygif

sorry, CREDIBLE corruption allegation.

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mygif

Y’know, this makes sense if one assumes McCain hates the current GOP leadership so much he wants to totally gut, eviscerate, castrate, and defenestrate the party for the next decade…

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mygif

I kinda miss the days when public figures could lie about their personal lives, and anyone who noticed the fabrication would think “Oh dear. The less said about this the better.”

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mygif

After watching this story burble out for the last day, the most interesting thing to me tonight is how the higher-profile liberal blogs are keeping the story off their front pages. One DailyKos diary has approximately eleventy billion comments, and it’s off its front page.

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mygif

“It took my mother 48 hours to give birth to me. I guess it would depend on the size of the child, but the whole story seems fishy to me as well.”

From what I hear, labor usually gets progressively faster with each child.

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mygif

Another data point.

Apparently, Palin announced this pregnancy when she “was at 7 months”, and nobody had the slightest clue.

Andrew Sullivan posted a link to a photo of Palin during an earlier pregnancy, and she’s clearly very pregnant.

It seems unlikely that she would be at 7 months in a pregnancy, and not show at all, with the baby arriving a month later weighing 6 pounds.

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mygif

Colin, given the extreme venerability of “Ma, ma, where’s my pa? Gone to the White House, ha ha ha,” are you entirely sure that those days actually existed?

If the nasty suspicions are true, Gov. Palin appears to have behaved with an extremely old-fashioned sense of propriety, like a “good” character in a Jane Austin novel. I’d be happy to respect her privacy, except that she’s politically unwilling to return the compliment. She wants, rather, to force the rest of us into the Austin novel with her. To my mind, that makes her personal affairs as public as she’d make ours.

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mygif

“After watching this story burble out for the last day, the most interesting thing to me tonight is how the higher-profile liberal blogs are keeping the story off their front pages. One DailyKos diary has approximately eleventy billion comments, and it’s off its front page.”

It’s understandable, really. It’s rather delicate – some objectionable angles (shame-driven deception and secrecy) to a honorable act, and could easily be portrayed as “Democrats attacking a teenage girl”. It requires a lot of finesse and subtlety, which the media aren’t very helpful with.

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mygif

Quixim wrote: “Really? I mean, I can tell the campaign is run badly, but as far as political campaigning go, the conservatives are -anything- but stupid. Besides, what people have been able to piece together in about two days based on family pictures and flawed testimonial should have been easily discovered by the probes that should have vetted her before this all happened. Even if it -isn’t- true, the fact that there’s even an imaginary scandal like this is just so outrageously confusing to me.”

It’s looking very much like she wasn’t vetted at all. Her hometown newspaper had not received any requests for access to its archives until the Democratic opposition researcher called. (Their archives aren’t on the web.) McCain hadn’t contacted the public safety official Palin fired, and Alaskan GOP party figures hadn’t gotten wind of any McCain representatives being in the state to vet her.

My guess, is that his advisors wouldn’t let him run with Joe Lieberman, so he impulsively picked the cute young chick. Maybe other VP options had expressed a lack of interest after seeing Obama in the packed stadium.

I mean, if there was much forethought and preparation involved, they probably wouldn’t have spent the week of the Democratic convention harping on Obama’s supposed lack of experience only to have that line of argument voided mere hours after Obama’s speech. I mean, they even rolled out an anti-Obama website, NotReady08.

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mygif

Lying does not a credible VP make.

End of story.

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mygif

The important thing, to me, is not the scandal itself, its whether or not she was properly vetted. This is something that McCain has had months and months to plan and decide. If he jumped in to this choice at the last second without doing the right digging and investigation that says more negative things about his character than Palin deciding to raise her daughters child.

– Robert D.

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mygif

Two points about the facts in the original Obsidian Wings post:

First, most commercial airlines have a policy blocking very pregnant women from flying, unless they have (effectively) a note from their doctors. However, most airlines use the honor system on this, and Alaska Airlines has no policy at all.

On the other hand, it appears that “Trig” was born at least 19 hours after mother Palin’s water broke–she awoke in the morning with amniotic fluid on her legs and “minor contractions”, gave a lunch-time speech, flew back to Anchorage (apparently an eight hour flight), and gave birth seven hours after landing. And yet Palin says this was her “easiest delivery”. This is just plain hard to believe. Not impossible–when one is dealing with the human body, almost nothing is impossible–just hard to believe.

(Facts from an Anchorage News-Miner article, http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/22/palins-flight-labor-falls-under-scrutiny/ .

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mygif

Mom (a nurse) points out that Down’s is more likely with an older mother, which adds an interesting wrinkle to this whole thing, though Palin is clearly hiding something (or openly incompetent).

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mygif

Yahoo just broke the following article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc

In a nutshell, they are claiming the daughter could not have been the mother of Trig as the eldest daughter is currently 5 months pregnant.

The only way the daughter could be Trig’s mother is if she went out and got knocked-up again immediately afterwards. The other side is that if she was truly bedridden for months with an extended case of mono and she is now 5 months pregnant, then she would have had to be knocked up at the tail end of it.

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mygif

“Mom (a nurse) points out that Down’s is more likely with an older mother, which adds an interesting wrinkle to this whole thing, though Palin is clearly hiding something (or openly incompetent).”

While this is true, 80% of Downs kids are born to women under 40, simply because younger women have far more children. Given a child who has already been born with Downs, you can’t really say how old the mother must have been.

The Palin thing gets weirder though.

Today Palin issued a statement that her 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant and will marry the father.

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mygif

“In a nutshell, they are claiming the daughter could not have been the mother of Trig as the eldest daughter is currently 5 months pregnant.”

And conveniently, if she isn’t actually pregnant, the lie would hold until after the election and could be used if someone catches Bristol using the breast pump or feeding Trig.

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mygif

“The only way the daughter could be Trig’s mother is if she went out and got knocked-up again immediately afterwards. The other side is that if she was truly bedridden for months with an extended case of mono and she is now 5 months pregnant, then she would have had to be knocked up at the tail end of it.”

Isn’t conception immediately following birth extraordinarily common because the female body is, at that point, extraordinarily fertile? Something to do with the hormonal changes triggering ovulation? I think because the body is already used to pregnancy and figures now is a good time for another go?

Sorry to phrase it all as a question, but I’m trying to remember notes from sophomore year physiology and such.

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mygif

Will– it really depends. I’ve been breastfeeding for nearly 11 months, started the minipill around 6-8 weeks postpartum, and have yet to see my period return.

Women who breastfeed usually don’t experience a return of fertility until much farther along– sometimes well past a year– until they stop breastfeeding. The body knows that a baby is being cared for and thus puts resources into sustaining the baby.

OTOH, moms who don’t breastfeed find that their periods and fertility return lightning-quick. Since the body isn’t breastfeeding, it apparently sometimes thinks there isn’t a baby any more (the baby must have died in childbirth, oh noez!), and thus ramps up the fertility so that the mom can get pregnant again and replace the (so-it-thinks) lost child.

Regarding the onset of labor– reading back again, her water didn’t BREAK. She had some leaking of amniotic fluid. This is much less dangerous than having one’s water break. If there is a tear in a woman’s amniotic sac at the top, she might get some leaking but still have plenty of time to get to a hospital. (A LOCAL hospital, if she is smart.) So yeah, in thinking about it, I can believe that she’d certainly be *able* to have some leaking and some false labor contractions and still have 48+ hours before actually delivering the baby. Now, if you have the water break near the bottom, where WHOOSH it all comes out, then that’s a different story– you have 24 hours at best to deliver that child. It’s also possible that she could have peed herself, for all we know. Lots of women think that they’ve had leaking amniotic fluid when they’ve actually just peed themselves. A little less easy to believe on a fifth pregnancy, but hey! When you’ve had one kid, much less five kids, things can start to go weird down there.

As for the flying thing– she DIDN’T TELL THE AIRLINE that she was pregnant, much less 8 months pregnant, much much less 8 months pregnant and experiencing early labor or false labor. Having gone through it, I can believe that she could have had Braxton-Hicks contractions. Those are the kind that are milder and don’t have an identifiable start and stop time to them. (I had four hours of them on Thursday and was able to drive home and even walk around Dominick’s and go food shopping for an hour.) They’re certainly not comfortable, but they’re markedly different from true labor. (In contrast, once I started true labor, I could barely do more than lie on the ground moaning, and the 7-minute car ride to the hospital was sheer hell.)

So, again– I can believe that she could distinguish false labor from true labor after having four previous pregnancies.

I can believe that she was fit and trim enough that she didn’t gain weight with this pregnancy other than the weight of the baby (under 7 lbs). I can believe that she’d keep it a secret until 7 months, especially since a Down Syndrome baby or other special-needs child can be more likely to be miscarried or have other Things Go Wrong with that pregnancy.

What I still *cannot* believe is that she would still feel safe taking an 8-hour commercial flight home. It’s your fifth child, lady! The kid may have heart problems that would require a special delivery. It’d be much safer not to get on a flight without having a local doctor at least check you out!

To me, that’s the bad part of it. She can try to raise her own 17-year-old kid with the best values, but it’s impossible to guarantee that every kid will avoid every bad decision that will possibly come their way. She can’t control what her daughter chooses to do. I don’t blame her for her daughter’s pregnancy, or hold that up as a case of “abstinence education doesn’t work.” That, I can forgive.

But risking your own child’s life when you have every bit of control over your own decisions? That, *THAT*, is something that gives me pause. That, to me, is the more worrisome example of what one shouldn’t do. That, to me, is the part that I’m looking at when I wonder whether this woman has good judgement.

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mygif

“I can believe that she was fit and trim enough that she didn’t gain weight with this pregnancy other than the weight of the baby (under 7 lbs).”

I don’t buy that – fitness has little to do with baby weight or showing. I didn’t gain an oz that wasn’t baby weight, and I still gained 25 lbs during my pregnancy. I was back to my start weight a week after delivering. Most of the weight was water. :/

Even with a 6lb baby, you’ve got placenta, uterus and a lot of fluid, and it needs to go somewhere. On a trim person it’s even more obvious.

This whole story gets fishier. Seems convenient to me that her daughter is JUST PREGNANT ENOUGH. Bleh.

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mygif

Charlotte– I hear you! I think I gained 30 lbs. Unfortunately, I only lost 15 of them after the baby. :P

But I have known some athletic people and some non-athletic people who were blessed with smaller pregnancies and who actually *lost* weight through changes in eating habits, extra exercise, etc.

Yes, it’s damn hard to believe. Not completely inconceivable (ba-dum-cha!), though.

And her daughter being just pregnant enough? Good god. I can’t buy that. I know that for the first month after I had my baby, the last thing I wanted to do was to boink. I wouldn’t think that a 16 or 17-year-old who’d gone through one teen pregnancy with a mom like hers would be raring to go again.

Unless… Yeah. Not gonna go there. I don’t even want to *think* about *that* possibility…

Time will tell.

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mygif

In a nutshell, they are claiming the daughter could not have been the mother of Trig as the eldest daughter is currently 5 months pregnant.
So, basically, Palin’s alibi that her teenage daughter didn’t get knocked up is that her teenage daughter is presently knocked up?

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mygif

Skemono: Ha! Sounds like it!

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mygif

Newsflash: a politician is lying and might be dumber than they pretend to be

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