Related Articles

75 users responded in this post

Subscribe to this post comment rss or trackback url
mygif

I’m tempted to be snarky and say that Adora will be the next Patrician, but if I’m choosing between Vimes and Moist, then I’d say Moist.

ReplyReply
mygif
sonofzeal said on May 14th, 2009 at 2:09 am

Honestly, Adora would be a pretty good idea. It’s probably Moist though; Vetinari is definitely working on Vimes, but Vimes is at his best within a power structure and on the streets, and Vetinari knows that. Simply put, Vimes is too good a copper to waste running the city, even if he could do the job (he couldn’t, not really), and even if he would accept it in the first place (he wouldn’t, not ever).

Moist however has nowhere better to be than on top and making up the rules as he plays. Vimes is more fun to read, and I have no doubt that Vetinari would give him provisional command of the city in a martial law type situation (as much as that’d be possible in AM), but Moist is the only one who could fill Vetinari’s shoes, so to speak.

ReplyReply
mygif

well, one thing that is important to think about is ‘is vetinari dying’.

keep in mind that when vimes was talking to the vampire in ‘the fifth elephant’ she asked vimes how old is vetinari. vimes said ‘oh, i don’t know, about my age i guess’, at which point she ended the conversation abruptly.

what does that mean.

we know that vetinari had met her before. but why the topic of his age?

also we know from ‘night watch’ that vetinari is roughly the same age as vimes, why would that make any difference?

collin

ReplyReply
mygif
RealKivlov said on May 14th, 2009 at 8:25 am

The next Patrician must
1.Have the ability to charm people into believing this is what they want whilst giving them what they need.
2.Understand that political manoeuvrings and open warfare is the same. I.e know when to apply violence as opposed to when to imply it.
3.Have an intelligence support structure of highly effective sources (connected and protected)
4. Able to exploit any fleeting disadvantages of present adverse situations in an instant.
5. Must be charismatic. People will believe in him/her even when mistakes are made and especially when they know better.
6. Ensure that a world without you will definitely be more troublesome. Make sure people know this.
7. Know where all the bodies are buried, processed and otherwise interred. Preferably because you put them there whether or not you actually did. Again people should know this
8. Be ruthless, unpredictable and entertaining in your methods.
9. Be incredibly difficult to kill. The very idea should considered ludicrous.
10. Ensure all your enemies hate each other more than you.
11. Be self assured.
12. Know thy enemies (Everyone who isn’t you).
13. Be practical(An essential survival skill).
14. Use people to the greatest effect.

Should a person achieve these objectives he/she will become Patrician regardless of Vetinari’s wishes or even if the Patrician no longer exists. i.e Vetinari is King and there will always be a King even if the title is not formally recognized. (Carrot the legal heir but Vetinari is the effective monarchy).

So far the closest candidate to these objectives is Harry King.

ReplyReply
mygif
Tenken347 said on May 14th, 2009 at 8:38 am

Actually, having the King of the Golden River take up the office of the patrician would be really cool, and just unexpected enough to be really fun.

ReplyReply
mygif
Peyj Turner said on May 14th, 2009 at 9:43 am

I have died and gone to Internet heaven; I never seen such a group of people spending time and brain power on anything about Prattchet’s work.

But enough fawning!

My opinion agrees with those believing that Vimes is too good a copper to actually be Patrician. He has always had a huge problem with being around high society, and is far more comfortable near the street, and near the actual action, to be pulled in a permanent desk job wielding that much responsibility. And, this is the kicker, Vetinari knows this.

Moist, on the other hand, is too much of a catalyst to have a permanent desk job; I’m willing to bet that Vetinari is going to move him to every single facet of government and public service, like the Post Office and the Banks in the last books, until he fixes everything, or Moist kicks the bucket.

So, I’m willing to bet the heir to A.M. would be Carrot; he’s an upstanding citizen, he knows EVERYONE, he’s willing to make tough decisions, and Vetinari knows this. Prattchet himself even mentions the possibility of the series moving in that direction in the Paul Kidby art-book (which really brings the characters to life by the way).

That being said, I agree that the idea of Harry King would be on the right side of crazy in terms of the Discworld books.

Also, Hobbes is real. No argument. Every child who’s ever had a Hobbes-like friend knows this.

ReplyReply
mygif
Snap Wilson said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:01 am

Have no idea what the first question is about, and Hobbes is an imaginary friend, which was kind of the whole point of the series. No magic necessary.

A friend of mine drew a photorealistic picture of a tiger walking with her cubs. One of the cubs is looking to the side at his imaginary human boy. I need to get it scanned some day.

ReplyReply
mygif
jonnywarlock said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:16 am

I’m really, really, really trying to imagine a Patrician other than Vetinari… All that comes out is “ERROR! Does not compute.”

But after reading all of the previous comments, then the choice should be obvious: The next Patrician can only be… John Turturro!

Or Hobbes. I’d vote for Hobbes.

ReplyReply
mygif
Dan Brown said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:22 am

Alright, I’ll try and hunt down a copy of “Guards, Guards!”. I bought “The Last Hero” at Half-Price Books, but I haven’t gotten a chance to look at it yet. I also saw a Discworld movie, “The Hogfather”, at the video store. Is it any good?

ReplyReply
mygif
That Guy said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am

On the question of Hobbes, one would have to ask how an imaginary friend would then tie up its “owner”. Bearing in mind this was done while the “owner” was in a chair, he was tied from behind and the wrists were specially bound. Oh, and tight enough to make Calvin’s dad wonder how it was done at all.

Hobbes has more reality than merely a figment of whimsy.

ReplyReply
mygif
equinox216 said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:54 am

Dan Brown: Last Hero is wayyyy late in the series, so it’s good, but it might not do much for you. “Hogfather” is, uh, particularly British/BBC in its production, so in COMBINATION with Pratchett, you’ve got both to consider. If you LIKE that sort of thing already, you may dig it. If you’re iffy, wait until you know if you like Pratchett.

ReplyReply
mygif
equinox216 said on May 14th, 2009 at 10:58 am

Also, I’m surprised no one’s suggested this yet:

Zombie Vetinari.
(or vampire, I suppose, with the prior relationship with Margalotta out there.)

ReplyReply
mygif
Tom Galloway said on May 14th, 2009 at 11:36 am

Was considering who else might work as Patrician, and thought of Granny Weatherwax. Although there are obvious problems such as age and not, y’know, actually living in Ankh-Morpork, she’d be an interesting choice. Then I started wondering; have she and Vetinari ever met?

ReplyReply
mygif

Another option:

Golems are powered by words, and specially prepared to do tasks for millennia.

Vetinari is modifying the city fairly heavily for a massive undertaking.

The largest repository of magical documents?

In Ankh-Morpok.

Between that and the recent Golem standard…

ReplyReply
mygif
Ithidet said on May 14th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

My word Bret. That is amazing. I never thought of that.

ReplyReply
mygif

Hey. You’ve drawn a lurker out of the woodwork.

Vetinari has never been the sort to have only one plan. He could have people he’s been working on who’ve only appeared in the background.

He toyed with elections back in “Feet of Clay.” At least that’s how I thought of the picture he drew of a crown wearing man composed of many other men.

Equinox’s point about tool makers is well taken. Moist did try to redirect that forger in “Making Money.” (I thought the golem standard was a cop out. Most of the book about going to a fiat currency and then just replace backing with something else.)

Let me enter a dark horse: Mr. de Worde. He is prominent, knows all the players, has a good reputation, and will do his duty. Unlike Moist, Vimes, and King, he’ll be welcomed by the still prominent old families. I don’t see him being a glorious, manipulative bastard, but there’s a difference between transforming the city and running it afterward. A point Pratchett has Vimes keep visiting: people like tomorrow to be just like yesterday.

While we’re talking Discworld politics, anyone know who is running Sto Lat while Susan is off teaching children?

ReplyReply
mygif
tavella said on May 14th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

Pratchett has been asked that question about Moist, since a lot of people read the two Moist books as him being pointed towards Patrician. Pratchett said nope, he wasn’t intending any such thing.

That doesn’t mean he won’t change his mind later, but he wasn’t deliberately writing it.

ReplyReply
mygif

I suspect it’ll be Moist, simply because Vimes and Vetinari are too close in age; if it were Vimes the city would have the same problem all over again in a few years.

Now, here’s a thing I’ve been thinking about: Young Sam and Magrat’s daughter are quite close in age. Magrat’s daughter is, technically, a princess. Who could Young Sam fall for to ensure his father gets as infuriated as humanly possible…?

ReplyReply
mygif

At least that’s how I thought of the picture he drew of a crown wearing man composed of many other men.

The crowned man composed of many other men was an illustration in the first edition of Thomas Hobbes’ Leviathan, a classic of political philosophy which argues for the necessity of an absolute ruler in order for society to function.

Also, Susan is the duchess of Sto Helit, not Sto Lat. /nitpick

ReplyReply
mygif

Wait… Hobbes wrote Leviathan?? Then he IS real!!

ReplyReply
mygif

In addition to the Leviathan reference, Vetinari’s doodle was probably also a musing on, or clue to Vimes about, the nature of the Golem King.

As for the original question: personally, I’m rooting for Lord Julius.

ReplyReply
mygif

Farmar said: Also, Susan is the duchess of Sto Helit, not Sto Lat. /nitpick

Oops. What I get for going from memory.

ReplyReply
mygif

My knee-jerk reaction is that he started grooming Vimes to be his replacement and it became obvious that it’d never work out for a number of reasons so he decided to use Sam for other things. He then decided to develop Moist as a successor.

Vetinari isn’t REALLY trying to fix the city anymore. He’s trying to leave it just broken enough that people need him. That – and the threat of Vimes’ vengeance – is a rather large part of why he’s still alive. When he IS gone then it’ll be just broken enough that it keeps Moist occupied. Moist gets restless when he isn’t challenged and running AM is the ultimate challenge.

Plus Moist could probably become a historical first for AM. He’ll be the leader that stays in power because people like him (in spite of himself) instead of staying in power because people dislike the idea of the city without him.

Of course, given the writer’s Alzheimer’s, Havelock will remain in charge for the remainder of the series anyway.

Oh, and Hobbes is real to Calvin and that’s all that matters.

ReplyReply
mygif

thanks Beacon, thanks ALOT.

ReplyReply
mygif
Evil Abraham Lincoln said on May 18th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

Those questions are silly.

A. Calvin is a Time Lord in training. Hobbes is only as real as Calvin wants him to be, which can be pretty damn real (eg. the aforemantioned tying to a chair incident.)

B. Vetinari is preparing *himself* to be his own successor. As long as… differently vital people such as Dragon King Of Arms exist in Ankh-Morpork, I’d say that the current Patrician would be willing to do everything in anyone’s power to remain a force in his city. And if it means accepting a vampire’s kiss, being too bloody-minded to die or *perhaps* learning how to take over a golem’s body (Yeah, noone ever considers the benefits of a Patrician with an immortal and nigh-indestructible body that doesn’t need to eat, sleep or breathe. And Adora’s efforts to bring as many golems to Ankh-Morpork as possible would yield a lot of test subjects…)

ReplyReply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Please Note: Comment moderation may be active so there is no need to resubmit your comments