If you can get past January Jones’ horrible Emma Frost, this is the best of the X-Men movies; if you can’t, it still is.
I saw someone upthread remark about how they were disappointed that they didn’t make Mystique a ‘sexy blue woman’. I for one am glad they didn’t. I thought that going for a slighty more agendered look was simply more visually interesting and unexpected.
But oh man I loved this movie and it’s use of the word ‘groovy’, it was just wonderful.
The rumoured Rosamund Pike would have been a much better Emma Frost.
Strong movie, overall, apart from some supporting characters who are just kind of there (this only really becomes problematic when real plot points hinge on them, as with Angel’s defection, which happens way, way too quickly).
Here’s my thing about Emma Frost’s portrayal: You can’t think of her as Emma Frost.
I mean, if you’ve read the comic books, you bring to this movie an entire understanding of who Emma Frost is and how she behaves, and that’s great. But think about Azazel in this film. In the comics, he’s an ancient demon/spirit/whatever the fuck Azazel is, with all these powers and he’s constantly sleeping with mutants and everything’s crazy. In the film, he’s Shaw’s servant who has a big-ass knife. In the same way, the film took the name, appearance and powers of an extremely complicated character, and turned her into another servant of Shaw’s, this time with telepathy and diamond skin.
I’m not saying that this was a good way to handle it, but I would be quicker to blame the writing than the acting. Given what they did the character, maybe “more sexually liberated Betty Draper” was precisely what they were looking for.
you don’t have to be a Nazi to commit crimes against humanity, and committing such crimes will not automatically make you a Nazi
The original question is whether it would have been better characterization to portray Shaw as a racist. Lots of people were racists in that time and place. The fact that he was willing to work in the Nazi death camps, helping exterminate Jews among other things, that he was not morally outraged by this, seems like a pretty good reason to assume, yes he would more likely than not have been a racist, whether or not he was actual a member of the German National Socialist party.
So is the story of Magneto’s training under Shaw and his eventual escape from the camp the subject of the next franchise?
Joseph said: “1. Erik didn’t even TRY to kill the doctor after the doctor murdered his mother. Obviously with Shaw’s power-set he wouldn’t have been able to, but Erik didn’t know that at the time. But the fact that he didn’t even try–after killing both guards no less–was just stupid. Painfully, jarringly stupid.”
Erik had little control over his power at that point. Note that the two soldiers already had metal surrounding their skulls, all Erik had to do was vaguely crunch out of anger to kill. He couldn’t fling anything with any aim, just crush and flail object around without direction.
OK movie, fun but flawed in several ways. Certainly not better than the far more tense and credible X2.
CommenCzar says One of the most important lessons of the research into how the camps could at all function was that many, if not most, participants and collaborators were not actually Nazis.
With all due respect, the movie itself contradicts this, when Erick says to the German men in Argentina that his family was killed by pharmacists and tailors.
Your presumption that Nazism is a mere philosophy to be discussed over beer and cigars in a Bayeruth beer garden seems to me ahistorical. Nazism was a philosophy; it was a also a political party, a political movement, a social movement and a military movement. Those who participated in its’ military and death camps were part of the political and military movement — and bloody well deserve the title of Nazis. Forgiveness and reconciliation are possible, but that’s really another discussion. Shaw never sought forgiveness — nor his Argentinian cohorts. Remember, in the movie itself, Erik did not know what the 2 Germans in the bar had done during the war. But he knew what they were. Nazis.
Others are free to disagree, but to me, if you were an officer at Auschwicz, if you were a member of the SS (and only SS were officers at Auschwiz), if you murdered innocents there — you were a Nazi.
Frankly I am stumped and stunned that people are rushing to defend an Auschwicz doctor against charges of Nazism. Because he was a mutant supremacist? Frankly, Shaw’s final plan, which would have killed a billion humans (and mutants also) was one no better than Hitler’s final solution in any understandable sense of morality —
Last his denials of Nazi affiliation were made when he was grooming a small frightened Jewish boy to be his willing subject in genetic experimentation. Even young Erik didn’t buy that — why should I?
And he straight up told the audience the reason why he wanted to start a nuclear war – he believed that increasing the amount of radiation would cause more children of the atom (mutants) to exist.
Yes I heard that. And that’s why I called it the stupidest plan ever. A billion people, including most of the living mutants in Europe and North America, die — and mutants will rise out of the irradiated world?
Sure mutants would rise, but that doesn’t make the plan un-stupid. Shaw could not have known the nature of mutants born from the heavily irradiated future. Would they be homo superior or something else? Would they really follow the lead of the man who’d pretty much destroyed the world? Killed their forebearers in an awful way?
Ah well, if his plan had worked, those second generation mutants would at least have killed Shaw … there’s a plan I can admire…
Shaw told his people not to kill mutants when he was still making the sales pitch. He killed Darwin because Darwin had betrayed him, as an object lesson to the rest of the FC who had chosen not to side with him.
You’re right, once the pitch was over, he was not as worried about killing mutants. But I’ve seen it twice now and you’re filling in gaps when you say he powerballed Darwin due to betrayal. Nothing in the movie gives us his motive. So my guess — he wants a mutant future w/o mutants who look like Darwin — is as good as any. (But yes, I think your guess is what the writers intended).
And why an object lesson for XFC? Why not just kill them with a big powerball right then?
Because he was still hoping to lure the rest of them over, I think. Darwin he clearly couldn’t trust; and even if Darwin had a genuine change of heart later–which seemed unlikely anyway–you just don’t let people into your inner circle who have already tried to betray you.
I don’t think it’s out of line to consider Shaw a Nazi, mind you–I doubt the people who suffered under the Reich really gave much of a damn what the individual personal beliefs were of the people who tried to destroy them–but I’m pretty sure his idea of racial purity was mutants-only, not Aryans-only. I mean, with the exception of Frost, his crew was not exactly filled with people a Nazi would want to hang out with. And he seemed pleased with who he got to defect: Angel and Darwin (when he thought Darwin was sincere), the only people of color on the X-team.
@Candlejack: Mystique is a “person of color” too!
1. Shaw’s not a Nazi, he just had an office at their death camp? How would he even have gotten that position, except by doing Nazi stuff for a reasonable length of time? Complete philosophical commitment is a minor detail when your job description is “war criminal.”
2. Having no preconceived notions of Emma Frost as a character, I didn’t find her portrayal terrible. I thought that she and Shaw had a good casual villainy going on.
3. Rose Byrne spied in her underwear believably and with dignity.
4. Charles shafted Moira MacTaggert pretty badly, but to what end? Is the C.I.A. not just going to find him at the massive castle he lives in that’s been in his family for decades and was his childhood home? Hell, it’s probably in the phone book under “Xavier, C.”
5. Was there no plan to stop the missile ship? Magneto could surely have bent its rudder.
Well, you got me there, Chalkwhite.
“Mystique is a “person of color” too!”
Heh, but she’s played by white girls in all the movies. I guess what that means is real-life has far more resonance than the fictional in this regard.
At X-Men FC tonight I was happy, THIS one seemed cool. Then, they killed the black guy…WTF? Darwin had one of the coolest powers. Why couldn’t he live? It’s not like they’re really sticking to the comic books anyway. Stan Lee purports to encourage acceptance, racist garbage like this makes him look like an ass. US movies just barely have people of color play regular folks not just “the black/Asian/Indian guy/gal”. That’s it! Hollywood can no longer kill the black people first (and NO substituting another non-white race either). I say we let Stan Lee, Matthew Vaughn and the rest know we want change, NOW.
Kevin Bacon in an ascot bears a scary resemblance to Dick Cavett.
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