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mygif

I just posted something along these lines to my highly Republican family’s e-mail list. We’ll see if they listen.

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mygif

Unfortunately, this message would have no impact on people who don’t recognize that Romney has lied, ergo, it would have on effect on most of Romney’s voters.

And if you ask how anyone could fail to recognize that Romney, flagrantly and repeatedly, has lied: you now understand the terrible secret of American politics.

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mygif

I think it’s worst than that. Through my limited interaction with republicans in the US, I think they know Romney is a liar and a fraud but they see him as the better alternative to Obama who they hate with a passion that honestly frightens me.

The ones I’ve spoken to believe nearly all the conspiracy theories about him and constantly refer to him as a psychopath who hates the US and wants to turn it into a socialist/communist/marxist/muslim/atheist/nazi delete as appropriate hell hole.

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mygif

I’m not voting for Barrack Obama.

… then again, I’m Canadian.

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mygif

The sad thing is that the best case scenario for elections in America from now on will involve at least some blatant lying. I’m optimistic enough to think that if Romney loses it’ll make candidates leave some amount of truth in what they say, however.

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mygif

I’m a Republican and although I don’t agree with Obama politically, I refuse to vote for Mitt for exactly those reasons. I’m in a state in which my vote isn’t going to matter really anyways (CT) so I always vote my conscience. Hence, Ron Paul.

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mygif

socialist/communist/marxist/muslim/atheist/nazi delete as appropriate hell hole.

Don’t forget lizard-man. Those conspiracy theories are the best conspiracy theories.

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mygif

Republicans are already looting the government at the State level. Back when they where looking for a candidate, Mitch Daniels was one of the GOP’s golden boys because the state recovered from a deficit.

As a native Hoosier I have to call bullshit.

He started out with a surplus. The deficit happened under his watch. He paid for it by doing things like gutting education*, crippling state worker unions so he can privatize a bunch government services**, and selling everything that isn’t nailed down*** to his corporate buddies.

I pity the next Indiana Governor that faces financial hardship. He’ll have to raise taxes once they run out of people to fire, services to cut, and stuff to sell.

Oh, also “Our Man Mitch” raised the sales tax so he could cut the property tax.

*Which makes his future position as President of Purdue University kind of funny.

**Letting IBM take over welfare enrollment call centers was such a disaster that he had to cancel the contract.

***Actually the toll road he leased to a foreign company for 75 years is about as “nailed down” as you can get.

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mygif

What are you talking about? The Republican Party would never do anything underhanded like passing legislation to intentionally cripple public services, then claim these services need to be privatized in order to survive. The private sector is just much better at handling things like schools, prisons, the postal service, and healthcare.

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mygif

In 2008, I volunteered for the Obama campaign. I have been planning to vote for his reelection since his election.

Then he signed the NDAA with the indefinite detention clause. Then he contested the lawsuit against it. Then he appealed the decision striking down indefinite detention.

It’s historical fact that the economy does better with higher tax rates on the top, and the Republican party is blind to this (and, yes, I can provide the proof of that if anyone wants it.) Mitt Romney is a lying scumbag I literally would not vote for at gunpoint.

But I cannot compromise my values, and my ethics, and vote for Obama after the NDAA.

Jill Stein in 2012.

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Mitchell Hundred said on November 4th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

I don’t entirely agree that it is necessary for all voters not planning to vote for Obama to change. I have heard residents of states which Obama has no chance of losing state their intent to vote for a third-party candidate who falls farther to the left than him. In that context it seems like it would be alright, as it would help to push the conversation farther left (however incrementally) on issues like civil rights and national security, where Obama has indisputably been a disappointment.

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mygif

I have attempted to appeal to Republicans on Twitter by saying “Look, if you really hate Barack Obama, that’s your call, but I beg you to vote for ANYONE other than Mitt Romney.”

Over and over again we’ve seen videotapes proving Romney to be an uncaring, unmitigated ass only in it for one person: Mitt Romney. We keep seeing news stories about Mitt Romney caught in yet again another lie, or “secret” videotapes of Romney callously disregarding people who don’t agree with his viewpoint.

We have not seen constant and unending BS like this about ANY OTHER CANDIDATE.

Anybody, ANYBODY but Romney, PLEASE.

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mygif

@Farwell3d: So long as you can accept that by not voting for Obama, you are assisting Mitt Romney in getting elected, you can vote however your conscience dictates. Personally, I can’t do that. I’m far too aware that one of the major ways that Republicans win elections is by depressing Democratic turnout, and that one of the key factors that led to the election of George W. Bush and eight years of unmitigated disaster for this nation was a group of people who decided to cast protest votes for a third-party candidate who fit their standards of ideological purity. It would haunt me if I cast my vote for anyone but Obama and Romney won by a narrow margin. But if you can do that with a clean conscience, then it is your vote.

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mygif

I fear a Romney presidency. I feel that while Obama might have oversold the “hope” thing, Romney is the revenge lay this nation does not need. I stand with my socialist Muslim overlord.

Seriously, though, wouldn’t it be cool if the right wingnuts shut the fuck up about Obama? Sadly, we’ll never see the President roll up and punch, say, Sean Hannity. And I can’t see Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert double-teaming Rush Liumbaugh. The closest we could get is if Jon and his staff were to fill Lewis Black with PCP, then unleash him on Fox News HQ. And that would suck, since we’d lose a valued comedian and author from that.

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mygif

I think there’s a fallacy that people don’t see when they discuss elections. I feel like people assume that when they vote they’re voting for an agenda to take over the country: do we make our country Conservative or Liberal? And so protest votes go to people who promise things that they want to see happen. The problem here is that this is not a scenario of equivalent results: we win and they lose or we lose and they win.

This is poker. This is a long series of games and the stakes are this country. And the fact of the matter is that Conservatives have a HUGE chip advantage right now. As a liberal my goal is to see the policies I believe in being enacted, but that’s long term. In the short term I’m voting to keep us in the game, and so I’ll take a safer bet on Obama over throwing my vote to a longshot third party candidate any day of the week.

Do I like it? Not really. Would I never vote for a third party? Of course not, but the system we have right now doesn’t support them. There’s ways to fix that but tossing your vote into the wastepaper basket marked ‘third party’ is not one of them.

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Heksefatter said on November 5th, 2012 at 5:47 am

Not being a US citizen I can’t vote in the election.

Still, while I would never vote for the scumbag Romney, I very much doubt that I could get myself to vote for Obama.

Obama has:

- Continued the torture. He is merely intelligent enough not to admit it. Check these stories about Bagram Airbase.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-forgotten-guantanamo-prisoner-abuse-continues-at-bagram-prison-in-afghanistan-a-650242.html

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/international/08-Jan-2012/torture-reported-in-afghanistans-bagram-prison/

- Sponsored terrorism against Iran, supporting the Mujahedeen-E-Khalq (MEK) in its terrorist attacks while the group was still on the list of terrorist organisations.
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/06/report_us_trained_terror_group/singleton/

- Fought for the indefinite detainment of people suspected of supporting terrorism. Rather ironic in the light of the above story.

- He has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all over US presidents combined.

- He has drone bombed Pakistan so that entire areas live in abject terror.

- He plans to expand the use of drones for surveillance of US citizens. They will be spies in the skies, giving total surveillance. They may be armed.
http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/domestic-drones

- He has supported the military coup in Honduras through accepting their fradulent elections. He uses puppet-”NGOs” to undermine foreign governments.

Obama is PART of the problem. He is – to put it nicely – an utter scumbag. I believe that Romney is even worse, but is that enough that I would vote for a man I consider a criminal, murderig torturer? I don’t know. My guess is that if I could vote in the US, I would end up voting for Jill Stein.

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Brian Smith said on November 5th, 2012 at 5:59 am

I’m an Arkansan, and there’s a very real chance that we’re going to vote Romney over Obama by a 2-to-1 margin. I’m surrounded by Romney supporters whose main feedback is other Romney supporters, so they’re thinking it’s not even going to be close: Romney with an electoral vote count in the high 300s once people get into the voting booth and think, “I *had* to tell those pollsters I was voting for Obama or they’d say I was racist.”

Here’s a direct quote from my dad about Democrats: “The ONLY thing they’ve been able to say about Romney is that he’s too good. He was too good at business. He’s too good to his family. He made too much money. That’s all they got.”

You say Romney’s campaign was based entirely on lying? I can steer you to more people than you’d ever want to meet who’ll tell you that Obama’s presidency is based entirely on lying. I’ve met birthers who still believe. I’ve read letters to the editor from people who know he’s a socialist plant just waiting for the unlimited power of a second term to take away our guns and give the United Nations power to tax us directly. I’ve heard from people who can say things like “Experts now believe the Obama presidency is the greatest disaster in U.S. history” and “Benghazi is a much bigger scandal than Watergate; at least nobody died in Watergate” and believe it with every fiber of their being. I’ve heard a woman argue that of COURSE Romney didn’t mean 47 percent of all Americans, and anyone who says he did is a liar; Romney meant the 47 percent of Obama supporters “who drive their Cadillacs to the supermarket and buy lobster with their food stamps.” Just yesterday I saw a bumper sticker that read, “Obama needs the MORON vote to win! Can he count on yours?”

I know people who believe the recession is Jimmy Carter’s fault (he forced banks to make risky loans) and Bill Clinton’s fault (he didn’t take bin Laden from Sudan in 1996, leaving bin Laden free to start the cycle of war spending that destroyed our economy until our brave Navy SEALS killed him and Obama took all the credit). You will never, ever convince the most diehard conservatives around here that Washington Democrats have ever done anything other than destroy our way of life in an attempt to make everyone helpless and dependent. I wish pointing out Romney’s lies were enough to make them at least think “Wow, we’d be taking an awfully big risk on this guy”…but nothing will ever make them stop thinking, “A vote for Romney is our last chance to get right with God.”

(this election cycle has really taken a toll on me)

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mygif

I don’t plan to vote on Tuesday. That’s because I voted on Friday, and I’m pretty sure they won’t let me vote twice.

For what it’s worth: I’m predicting the result will be Obama/Biden with 303 votes in the Electoral College.

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MonkeyWithTypewriter said on November 5th, 2012 at 10:20 am

Here’s the thing. Every candidate lies to some degree when they’re trying to get to be President, or senator, or dogcatcher. That’s not cynicism, it’s just truth. About the only thing Romney hasn’t lied about is that he’s not Barack Obama. Is Obama flawless? No. I think the Office might have been a little overwhelming for him, and I was going to vote for Richardson first time anyway. But it just astounds me that Mitt Romney, of all people, is the best Republican candidate.

And Brian Smith, I live in PA, and let me tell you brother it’s pretty similar here.

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mygif

That’s certainly an annoying title for a post on a website that’s not US-based.

And reinforcing the two major US parties duopoly is not something the internet should really be doing.

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mygif

I will certainly not be voting for Romney, but if there is anything I am fed up with MORE than bullshit republican asshat liars, it is fearmongers who insist I support their jackass candidate instead because “IF YOU DON’T, THIS IS THE END!”.

Stop this. For the love of god, stop it. It does not help solve the greater political dilemma of the insane two-party lockout system, the crass role that money plays in elections, or the way BOTH parties consistently pursue bad policy. Is Obama better than Romney? Certainly. But while you may think that letting Romney win on a campaign of complete lies sets a terrible precedent, letting Obama win on a campaign of “I’m the lesser of two evils” sets a precedent (IMO) just as bad.

Besides…do you honestly believe that if Romney loses, his supporters will IN ANY WAY see that as “whoops, shouldn’t have lied so much”? They will not, I assure you. Regardless of how this election goes, I have every confidence that the Republican party will double-down with the lies and the bullshit next election cycle.

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Sean D. Martin said on November 5th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

Besides…do you honestly believe that if Romney loses, his supporters will IN ANY WAY see that as “whoops, shouldn’t have lied so much”? They will not, I assure you. Regardless of how this election goes, I have every confidence that the Republican party will double-down with the lies and the bullshit next election cycle.

Exactly right. If they follow their usual course (and there is no evidence they will do anything but that) the “conservatives” will not get reflective after they lose. “Did we go too far?” self-reflection just isn’t in their make up. They will instead continue to insist that they were right and the reason they lost was that they didn’t go far enough.

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mygif

Well, why the hell shouldn’t this come from a non-US based website? As we saw at the end of the Bush administration, what happens to the US economy has global impact. Looting the treasury, and creating a tax and regulatory scheme that only benefits a very small segment of the US, which disastrous consequences for everyone else is bad news for everyone else. If America is a poisonous bankrupted wasteland, so is Canada.

Besides, I live in North Carolina (which is not really a battleground state, no matter what happened here 4 years ago, our current Governor has seen to that), and I might as well write the same thing entitled “An Open Letter to Anyone Not Planning To Vote For Barack Obama in Ohio”.

And, at the very least, if Romney loses the way this cycle has played out, it might actually get people on the right to support doing away with the Electoral College, since it’s becoming more and more unlikely that a Republican can put together 270 EV. (There’s an easy solution to the problem too. It’s called the National Popular Vote Compact, and when it was in the NC General Assembly it was opposed by every Republican legislator)

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mygif

That’s certainly an annoying title for a post on a website that’s not US-based.

John Seavey, despite all his many fine qualities I am sure are there, is regrettably American, so I don’t quite see your point.

And reinforcing the two major US parties duopoly is not something the internet should really be doing.

If you want to advocate for political reform that encourages smaller parties, by all means! But suggesting that voting for smaller parties during a major election will change things is A) wrong and B) silly.

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mygif
William Kendall said on November 5th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

It astounds me that the party of Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Eisenhower has fallen this far, and sunk this low.

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Hypo-Calvinist said on November 5th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

We, as a people, are so willfully ignorant that as the democratic party moves further and further to the right (We call that the center here), their supporters get louder and louder about how they are the most democratty democrats in the history of democracy. Fans of Team Elephant see through this nonsense of course. The president who did nothing to punish or rein in the criminal actions of those in the financial class whose recklessness destroyed the world economy is obviously a commie! I have some questions for those of you who endorse voting for the Democrat because the Republican would be so much worse. Does it ever end? How? What would be too much?

Obama campaigned on rewarding, not punishing whistle-blowers, but his administration has done more to prosecute and silence whistle-blowers than all others combined. He’s also the first to use the Espionage act, so some of these people are potentially facing the fucking death penalty!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/business/media/white-house-uses-espionage-act-to-pursue-leak-cases-media-equation.html

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/05/obamas-war-whistle-blowers/38106/

Obama claims the right to straight up murder you! Obama has used drone strikes to kill even US citizens with no oversight, judicial or otherwise. The most common argument I have heard for this not being a bad thing is, they were terrorists! If you miss the point that badly, how about the fact that now Mitt Romney can kill whoever he wants if he wins?

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/06/attorney_general_holder_defends_execution_without_charges/

Of course the vast majority of drone strikes only kill militants. Yes, because Obama has adopted a very precise definition of militant: Any male of “military age” who happens to be someplace we want to shoot some Hellfires.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/30/jake-tapper-jay-carney-militant_n_1555474.html

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/

Neither party gives half a fuck what any of us think, so the only way to change their policy by voting is to not vote for murdering corporate hand-puppets who would crawl over broken glass to privatize the commons.

Of course the Simpsons said it more succinctly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70

Go ahead, throw your vote away!

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mygif

Oh, my point is that the title “To anyone not planning to vote for Barack Obama” and not addressing that “anyone” does include the 95.54% of the world who are not US citizens.

It matters, and is worth caring about, but it’d be nice to address that non-Americans are people too. (And, you know, there’s a reason that Pakistan is one of the only countries that would prefer “Not Obama” to “Not Romney” and people from there have legitimate reasons for disliking him more than Romney.)

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mygif

And I think that if you’re in US state that’s not a swing state and has a third part candidate who’s viable, there’s no reason not to vote for them, if you like ‘em.

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mygif

You can do better than this and I really wish you would.

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Heksefatter said on November 5th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

Besides the above stories about Obama’s countless crimes, I would like to refer to Glenn Greenwald’s excellent piece about Obama on Salon: ‘Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy.’

In brief, one of the greatest catastrophes of the Obama administration is not only how it has continued the authoritarian quashing of civil liberties, but also how it made authoritarianism a bipartisan issue. Due to Obama, the greater part of liberal criticism of human rights violations has been silenced. The majority of liberals have accepted Guantanamo, thanks to Obama’s efforts. Likewise with domestic surveillance and the drone murderers.

I’ll be frank: Today, I wish that McCain had won in 2008. Sure, he was a huckster with an abomination for a veep, but at least he had faced meaningful liberal opposition over civil rights. Romney…I don’t know. He’d probably be even worse than Obama, considered only on his own “merits.” But there’s a chance – just a chance – that US liberals might get their act together and that the Democratic party will cut back on the authoritarian policies.

I also hope that an obvious scumbag like Romney will not be as skilled as Obama in hiding his crimes.

The main argument for voting for Obama is that he might be less likely to start a war with Iran, though even of this, I am not sure. He might be more able to get away with it. On economics, he’s less insane than Romney, though.

But I couldn’t vote for the authoritarian Obama. And I can only urge people to wisen up.

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mygif

I actually think that there’s a worse precedent being set than the lying. You see, I’ve seen a number of people arguing that Obama will not be able to get anything done in a second term, thanks to the Republican congress. If Obama loses here, then it’s simply telling the politicos in Congress that they won’t be blamed for obstructionism. Imagine what that will mean for the future: any time the House/Senate and the Presidency are under control of different parties, the House/Senate know they can bone the President by doing nothing.

Say what you want about the Westminster system, but at least we don’t have to put up with that nonsense.

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mygif

But suggesting that voting for smaller parties during a major election will change things is A) wrong and B) silly.

Not necessarily. If a minor party manages to get 5% of the popular vote, they’ll get the federal funding and ballot access that the Dems and Reps currently have a duopoly on.

Of course, voting for a third party risks supporting the candidate you hate by depriving his opponent of vote. Lucky for me (heh), I live in a thoroughly Republican state, so I lack the power to actually help Obama win. I voted Libertarian (hooray for early voting!).

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mygif

Oh FFS. This again?

Obama tried to close Guantanamo. A unified Congress said no fricking way, refused to fund any change in the way the prison was run, and basically dared Obama to make a deal of it.

If you want to blame someone for Guantanamo still being open, blame Congress – they’re the ones who did it.

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mygif

@Heksefatter: Yes, because that meaningful liberal opposition proved to be such a stumbling block to Bush over the preceding eight years. Goodness me, meaningful liberal opposition prevented Abu Ghraib, stopped the Iraq War in its tracks, prevented the selective prosecution of Democratic officials by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales…heck, it even stopped those crooks at Enron! Thank goodness for meaningful liberal opposition. It’s the only thing standing between us and chaos.

(Sarcasm-free version, which also addresses a few other comments…it is all well and good to wish that we had other viable options besides the Democrats and the Republicans, but the fact is we don’t. We don’t even really have two viable options, because at this point the Republicans bear more resemblance to an organized criminal enterprise than to a political party. (My private dream is that one day these jokers will get slapped with a RICO lawsuit…) They have no intention of respecting any rules that they can get away with ignoring, which means that yes, you do have to vote Democrat if you want things to be run in a non-shitty manner. You may not like it. I don’t like it. But being a grown-up is dealing with the facts on the ground. If your doctor came up to you and said, “I either have to amputate your leg or you die,” you wouldn’t say, “I don’t like either of those options. I want to get a penicillin shot as a protest vote!” Because getting the penicillin shot, while a nicer option, is basically voting for death by default.)

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mygif

And I can only urge people to wisen up.

Yes, show those Democrats that you won’t stand for authoritarianism by voting for the MORE authoritarian party! That will totally work!

If you want to change the Democratic Party, you gotta do it from the inside. Get involved in the primary process and support better candidates. Campaign for a party platform that no longer supports these things. Hell, get involved with a third party at the grassroots level and help them build an infrastructure that will eventually let them win elections (this will involve starting small – REAL small, as in city councillor at most and even then it will be a hell of a slog). The Tea Party, for all its flaws, got this. God help me, but there are definitely aspects of their strategy that left-wings Democrats could learn from.

But in THIS Presidential election you have two choices: Obama or Romney, and if you think that Romney will be better than Obama on literally any of the points that have been raised, then you haven’t been paying attention since Reagan at the very least.

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mygif

The problem, John, is that I cannot vote for Barack Obama with a clean conscience.

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mygif

Will there be live-blogging tomorrow night, O Mighty God King?

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mygif

Will there be live-blogging tomorrow night, O Mighty God King?

Possibly.

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mygif

My sentiments exactly, Mr. Seavey.

http://reformamendment.blogspot.com/2012/11/it-should-never-have-been-this-close.html

To every American here: GET THE VOTE OUT TOMORROW! The better the turnout the less likely the vote suppressors in FL, OH, PA and elsewhere can steal the election for Mitt.

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mygif

You know, I have no real hopes that voting Romney down will make his associates more honest. Heck, I expect to see a further conservative double-down. But if that happens, it just might shatter the Republicans over the next decade. The moderate Republicans are increasingly alienated, the wingnuts are increasingly inclined to Tea Party ideological purity, and the mere hard right-wingers are increasingly alone in the Republican party.

And while America is a two-party nation, those two parties have changed before when a crisis becomes sufficiently severe.

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Heksefatter said on November 6th, 2012 at 12:36 am

@John Seveay

Bush actually had to moderate his policies in his second term. Furthermore, if you go to Britain, you’ll see that popular opposition to the Iraq War almost prevented Blair from going to war. So it DOES matter.

But what you are overlooking is that Obama has essentiall destroyed popular opposition to authoritarianism. Before Obama, there was a chance to turn things about. Now, it is very difficult to see.

The disaster that is Obama is simply not understood.

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Hypo-Calvinist said on November 6th, 2012 at 7:43 am

Well, obviously John, yours is the “grown-up” point of view, I hadn’t considered that. The Republicans and Democrats are both engaged in a game to see who can more efficiently loot the commons and institute policies which the majority of Americans find repulsive. But what we should worry about is that the Republicans are cheating! How “grown-up”.

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mygif

I can’t vote for Barack Obama with a clean conscience, either.

Hell, my conscience hasn’t been clean since 1957.

But I can and will vote for Barack Obama with the dirty / soiled / singed conscience I have.

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mygif

Furthermore, if you go to Britain, you’ll see that popular opposition to the Iraq War almost prevented Blair from going to war. So it DOES matter.

1. “Almost stopped” doesn’t mean shit to all the dead people
2. In which alternate reality did this happen? Certainly not in the Britain I live in.

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mygif

“I will certainly not be voting for Romney, but if there is anything I am fed up with MORE than bullshit republican asshat liars, it is fearmongers who insist I support their jackass candidate instead because ‘IF YOU DON’T, THIS IS THE END!’.

Stop this. For the love of god, stop it.”

A-fucking-men. While I’m no Romney fan, I think the hyperbole here is more than a little…reactionary, might be the word?

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mygif

Some people like to think about consequences.

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