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mygif

I’m not sure how ‘well reasoned’ his defence is, given that we have a R18+ rating for movies already. Why are games more likely to be theived from the locked cabinet than movies? Why are parents more likely to play violent video games with their toddler around than watch violent movies? Parents make bad choices anyway, but this punishes those who make good choices. Also those who lack children. Durr.

If he’s in favour of removing the R18+ rating on movies as well, then his argument is intelligent and consistent. Until then, he’s simply assuming that all games must be for kids, despite clear evidence to the contrary. He is being irrational and reactionary- characteristics I would associate with the Liberal party and its Family First allies, not Labor.

Sheesh. “I am concerned about the harm of high-impact (particularly violent) computer games to children.” Well that’s why we want an adults-only rating, silly man.

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mygif
Rob Brown said on July 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

Comparing it further to Bioshock, could any part of Fallout 3 be taken as an endorsement of the positive effects of cigarette smoking?

‘Cause in Bioshock, if you find a pack of smokes lying around and light ’em up, you get more Eve.

Actually, what about real cigarettes? If these guys want to make laws like this because they claim they’re worried that a child might play the game when the adults aren’t watching, why don’t they totally ban cigarettes because of a fear a child might smoke one when the adults aren’t watching?

Also, booze.

Also, sharp and/or pointy objects. Ban those too.

OR….

Why not avoid an outright ban on any of these things, including the game, and just trust the parents to keep them out of the reach of children?

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mygif

I’m surprised that it merits needing state approval. I thought that here in the US that the ESRB was a voluntary ratings system, and the MPAA for movies was likewise voluntary. As in, not state regulated. I could be mistaken, of course.

I think the problem with video games is the same as the problem with comics and animation– they were seen as a “kiddies only” thing for so long that a lot of adults over 50 or 60 only think of them as a kids’ thing. And thus, they see an adults-only rating as inappropriate for a kids’ activity.

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mygif

“I thought that here in the US that the ESRB was a voluntary ratings system, and the MPAA for movies was likewise voluntary. As in, not state regulated. I could be mistaken, of course.”

That’s true in the States, but video games are state regulated in a number of countries, including the UK and, apparently, Australia.

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mygif
Sofa King said on July 12th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

This is why they are heathens who should be smote by the almighty power of US.

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mygif

We are a country where the dirt is as red as the blood spilt upon the asphalt. A country where a stingray lurks around every corner, and the tea and coffee are served not with biscuits, but spiders.

Australia has never been a more attractive destination to me.

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mygif

my parents made us all go to bed before watching R-rated films.

I hated it, but they were right.

I’ve seen kids casually watching adult content with their parents, and worse, playing mature games without any supervision.

government can only go so far in getting people to act with any basic sense.

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mygif

If it can’t be sold or imported at all, is that a violation of freedom of the press or something?

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mygif

Wendy, I like the tone and sentiment of your piece, especially your even-handed discussion about Michael Atkinson and his position. I agree with you that the position he holds is wrong, but not wholly ill-informed.

My problem is that you do yourself no favors when you ask “but seriously, who here really thinks the 50 Cent game is a work of art?” Because it’s just as easy to ask, who really thinks a game that feels “as if you’ve rocked up to the World Fair a day late and found it trashed by mutants armed with nuclear weaponry” is a work of art? Injecting your own aesthetic judgment about the worthiness of one game over another lends credence to those who would then argue that *no* video game is a work of art.

And if no video game is art, why care if it is toned down, censored, or otherwise modified?

The 50 Cent game may be a piece of dreck, but that does not make it more or less deserving than your precious Fallout series.

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mygif

Porter, that’s the kind of attitude that leads to tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars buying a crucifix in a jar of piss because it’s “art.”

It doesn’t lend credence to those who would argue no video game is a work of art. Not everything is art, and it’s time people stood by their guns and pointed out the merits of the things they considered worthy of the name, rather than letting paintings made out of elephant shit be called art because they’re too scared to make value judgements.

Seriously. Your statement makes the Scary Movies, Superhero Movie, Epic Movie, and films of that nature equal with Schindler’s List or Citizen Kane, an issue of Hustler the equal of the works of Shakespeare, some random MS Paint thing uploaded onto deviant art the equal to the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, or Ashley Simpson’s discography equal to Mozart or Beethoven.

In short, you would have everything be shit.

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mygif

@Andrew- those sort of objective judgments aren’t going to do anyone any favors, in the end. Is schindler’s list equal to the works of Shakespeare? Is (your favorite book) worthy of being called art? Or your favorite band’s best album? Value judgments are fine, but they’re rarely going to strengthen your argument- odds are, any piece of art you think is objectively brilliant can be dismissed as stupid crap by someone smart who hates it.

–d

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mygif

You guys are right on the money with the problem of the definition of art. One person can’t make those value judgments when it comes to tricksy things such as art – especially seeing it tends to be defined as the meaning people take away from it rather than the thing itself.

While I couldn’t resist the extra snipe, it wasn’t necessary.

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Chief "Broom" Bromden said on July 12th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

Consider me an recalcitrant, incorrigible stalwart motherfucker, but Bethesda’s Fallout 3 looks to be as faithful to the Black Isle originals as Tim Tams are disgusting and easily and cheaply procured in the US.

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mygif

I was hyped for Fallout 3 right up until I heard it was being made by Bethesda. If I wanted to spend hours and hours wandering around aimlessly in a wasteland, I would move to Utah and take up hiking.

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mygif

Yeah, can we talk about the biscuits more, please? I know that the Gospel of Vegemite is a bit of a non-starter with our North-American friends, but maybe we can get them on board with the biscuits. Wendy, you choose a good example with Monte Carlos, and one cannot ignore Tim Tams, but I do think that one of Australia’s greatest biscuits is the Gaiety. The chocolate, the wafer, the slightly smaller size so that you can tell yourself “I can have three rather than the regular two” – the Gaiety has it all.

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mygif

The venerable Gaiety is quite nice, and one can’t go past the Iced Vovo, but for me, at present, biscuithood lost a major stalwart when Players stopped making their Devonshire Creams. Melt-in-your-mouth shortbread filled with cream and jam? They shall be missed.

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mygif

As usual, the question “is it art?” is quickly conflated with the entirely more interesting but separate question “is it good art?” The point about the 50 Cent game not being ruined by censorship is not that it wasn’t art to begin with, but that it wasn’t good enough to be ruined.

If someone did it on purpose, the safest approach is to assume that it has an artistic aspect. There are things, like boat trailers and extension cords, that would be pretty tiresome and pointless to approach as subjects of artistic criticism. But I’m not sure that anybody ever bothers to deny that something is art without really meaning to condemn the lack of artistic merit that they see in that thing.

And if I’m going to start grumbling about my tacks dawlerse, I’ll be taking aim at subsidies and wars before I bother with something boring like Piss Christ. Call it an artistic decision…

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mygif

@andrew & @eric, I would argue that Andres Serrano *absolutely* created a work of art, the impact of which is still reverberating through the world. Unlike much modern art – conventionally unconventional and designed for a good ROI – “Piss Christ” is polarizing and memorable. So memorable, that 20 years after the fact it’s still brought up in random arguments about the nature of art. So powerful, that its detractors still foam and fulminate at its mere mention.

(Notably, many of the same people who defend the Jyllands-Posten cartoons and decry the threats of violence against their artists are those same foaming fulminators. Sacrilege is in the eye of the beholder.)

And @andrew, if I understand correctly, you are comparing Fallout to Shakespeare? Or is it to Citizen Kane, I’m not clear? Snark aside, do you think the game will have the same lasting impression on the world? Will scholars 50 years hence debate the subtle nuances in the game? And what of the greater impact on society? I’m a regular visitor here (an irregular commenter) and play the occasional game. I’m not a gamer, but I am a geek. I’ve never heard of this game. Question my “geek cred” all you will, but ask yourself: if I’ve never heard of it, what impact on the greater society has been made by Fallout?

Certainly not as much as “Piss Christ” or Schindler’s List. Hell, not even as much as Scary Movie.

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mygif

Hasn’t the whole hypothesis that kids are affected more by games been kind of debunked at this point? I know some studies in Britain have come out arguing that games have even less impact, because the interactivity makes it more obvious that it isn’t real- you’re more aware of it as play.

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Daniel Crawford said on July 14th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

Mr. Atkinson’s complaint about the R18+ classification seems specious … mostly because he’s trying to protect “the children”. Isn’t 18 the age of majority in Australia? If the games are restricted to adults, then who the hell cares what the kids think? This is the babies and steak argument all over again.

As for kids getting into adult material, that’s an entirely different question. Mr. Atkinson should go back to logic class.

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mygif

I found this site called http://URAjerk.com maybe you can use it. It seems to help get me through the issues of dealing with some of the jerks I know. At least I can vent about these jerks, plus I get a kick out of sending them some cards.

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