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bunnyofdoom said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 am

…Holy crap. Just when I thought there was no way I could find Glenn Beck craziness after the 9/12 movement….

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I think he’s a very sad man, deserving of pity, and I would like to congratulate the Fox network for saving someone such an obviously mentally unwell man from a short life on the streets.

I do wish they would try to convince him to take his meds more often, though.

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malakim2099 said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 am

The Master clearly is a Fascist. However, I think the Doctor has more communist sympathies.

He never carries a weapon! How can he be anything other than a Commie!!!

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He could be a hippy peacenick.

Which is like a commie, but worse!

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Andrew W. said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 am

I bet Obama used his time travelling secret powers to assassinate JFK. Of course, Obama didn’t use a gun, but instead killed JFK with ‘bullets’ made from pure Anti-American Liberalism.

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MarvinAndroid said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:55 am

Well, Doctor Who is the self-appointed protector of the universe with no oversight who acts unilaterally based on his personal moral code.

So he’s either a dictator or George Bush.

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DistantFred said on April 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 am

I am convinced that Glenn Beck’s 9/12 Project is some kind of terrorist plot to ‘save America from socialism’ or some such bullshit.

On 9/12, deaths will happen, Glenn Beck will have been the architect, and he will brag about it on FoxNews because they managed to kill Al Franken or some bullcrap like that.

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Andrew W. said on April 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 am

I’m going to go out on a limb and assume Glenn Beck’s on the political right, so I’m somewhat puzzled as to what his problem is with a march towards fascism – fascists’ve always been pretty fucking right-wing. He should be happy as a pig in shit.

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So instead of Socialism, now it’s Fascism?

He changes things everyday doesn’t he?

So if today he’s worried about time travelling fascists, does that mean tomorrow Per Degaton will be a special guest and he’ll be buddies with him and be PRO time travelling fascists?

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sonofzeal said on April 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 am

I’d just like to mention that “the symbol of fascism” he mentions is also on the arms of the Lincoln Memorial, but predates both that and the Mercury dime and goes all the way back to the Etruscan era, dating it at around 1000 BC. Apparently the path to fascism is VERY VERY VERY long……..

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BlackMage said on April 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 am

Well, by Beck standards, the Doctor IS actually a fascist.

YouTube

Around 1:05, Margaret Thatcher — he winces. And if Obama is a fascist, then Thatcher, who was the most un-Obama pereson it’s possible to be, must be the absolute ANTITHESIS of a fascist.

And by not liking Thatcher the Doctor is a fascist. It’s that simple.

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The Doctor has sympathy for everybody. It’s his most noble trait.

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Also,

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To say Beck has gone off the deep end would be an lie. I don’t think he went off the deep end; he was born there.

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Andrew W

Get with the program,it’s a simple equation. If the side you’re on(the Republicans)is doing it, it’s what’s best to preserve freedom and promote democracy across the globe, if the other side (the dems) is doing it, it’s evil and will destroy the county. This applies even if it’s the exact same action, or if the dems are continuing a policy started under bush.

The hypocrisy isn’t just staggering, it’s enough to blow you 15 feet back through a plate glass window John Woo style.

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Its common knowledge that when Fox News hired Glenn Beck, they replaced his brain with a turnip.

They have the technology. They can make him dumber, weaker, slower.

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NCallahan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 8:31 am

Now, I suppose you can make the argument that while fascism was only officially named as a theory of governance 1921, it’s origin lies in cultural and historical forces that far predate that and it’s underlying philosophies were in discussion long before the name was coined. (A teacher I had liked the term Proto-Fascist, which is, “fascist but there wasn’t a name for them yet”.) So a culture could have been moving towards fascism before it was put into so many words, as Italy undoubted was. (Just, you know, it got there.)

None of which matters, of course, I’ve heard far better conspiracy theories than this one. My favorite being, Obama is the result a breeding program to produce a president who will start a race war, and this program is based on the lineage of English Kings, as the powers that be will only let those of royal-descent take the Oval Office…

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Lister Sage said on April 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 am

NCallahan: Where did you hear/read that? Cause that sounds like it would make for a kick ass comic.

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Time travelling Facists… It all makes sense. They all said the US wouldn’t be ready for a black president for at least 50 years. So Obama must have come back from that time!

Does anyone else see a link between this and the supposed disappearance of Blue that is all the buzz these days? In the US, if you don’t have Blue, what is left? Red and White. And what do those make? Pink!

This is all an elaborate scheme that will eventually lead to the US becoming one giant pinko-commie-bastard socialized-medicine welfare state which can no longer produce goods but voraciously consumes what the rest of the world produces. Eventually someone will decide that war is cheaper than import taxes and we’ll use advanced military technologies to take over country by country until one day Skynet becomes self-aware.

I’ll be in my bomb shelter. Someone tweet when the time for an uprising is at hand.

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I still can’t get over the fact he compared the current government to 1984.

I think Orwell would be spinning in his grave.

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“I think Orwell would be spinning in his grave.

Maybe this is all part of the republican energy plan. Get him spinning fast enough, you could hook up a generator and power the east coast.

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Screaming Yellow Zonker Harris said on April 2nd, 2009 at 10:14 am

Glenn Beck is what Oscar Wilde meant when he said, “Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”

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Maybe they tried sending a terminator back to kill Marx, and this was the result?

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 am

Glenn Beck claims at about the 2:20 mark that the emblem of a fasces on the Mercury Dime is proof that the United States has been marching towards fascism since 1916 (possibly earlier, since he also blames Teddy Roosevelt, who left office in 1909). However, fascism itself was only invented, essentially, with the party platform of the Italian National Fascist Party in 1921.

It was labeled in 1921. But unlike technology, idealiologies don’t just spring out whole cloth from nothing. The points about Teddy are drawn a lot from Jonah Goldberg’s book.

I am convinced that Glenn Beck’s 9/12 Project is some kind of terrorist plot to ’save America from socialism’ or some such bullshit.

On 9/12, deaths will happen, Glenn Beck will have been the architect, and he will brag about it on FoxNews because they managed to kill Al Franken or some bullcrap like that.

You should watch more of Beck as he’s expressly begged for this to NOT happen.
As detailed in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/business/media/30beck.html
” His comments have prompted several bloggers to speculate recently that the TV host may have been promoting an armed revolt.

Jeffrey Jones, a professor of media and politics at Old Dominion University and author of the book “Entertaining Politics,” said that Mr. Beck engages in “inciting rhetoric. People hear their values are under attack and they get worried. It becomes an opportunity for them to stand up and do something.”

Sitting in his corner office overlooking Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, Mr. Beck rejected such charges but acknowledged that some people see sinister meanings in his commentaries. He said the people “who are spreading the garbage that I’m stirring up a revolution haven’t watched the show.”

To answer his critics, Mr. Beck delivered a 17-minute commentary — remarkably long by cable standards — last Monday, answering criticisms, including one from Bill Maher that he was producing “the same kind of talking” that led Timothy McVeigh to blow up the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.

“Let me be clear,” Mr. Beck said. “If someone tries to harm another person in the name of the Constitution or the ‘truth’ behind 9/11 or anything else, they are just as dangerous and crazy as those we don’t seem to recognize anymore, who kill in the name of Allah.””

Get with the program,it’s a simple equation. If the side you’re on(the Republicans)is doing it, it’s what’s best to preserve freedom and promote democracy across the globe, if the other side (the dems) is doing it, it’s evil and will destroy the county. This applies even if it’s the exact same action, or if the dems are continuing a policy started under bush.

The hypocrisy isn’t just staggering, it’s enough to blow you 15 feet back through a plate glass window John Woo style.

It would be if you didn’t know anything about Beck and just assumed he was partisan. Which he isn’t. As watching any episode of the show you’ll see him denouncing partisanship and getting on republicans as much as democrats. (he’s about as happy with Bush as he is with Obama)

He is a little off about the dime because the fasces symbol is an old one that the movement commandeered (like Nazis and the swastika). However, that part of the video looked heavily edited so I’m wondering how much context might have been cut.

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 11:07 am

Challenger Grim, I don’t have the foggiest idea why you would choose to defend the odious smear of fecal remnants that is Glenn Beck, but it is as obvious to me as the rising sun that in defending someone like that, you have obviously lost touch with what the rest of us call reality. Time to lay of the hallucinogens.

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm

MirrorMan, your claims of “reality” might hold weight if you guys didn’t make so many base factual errors about the man.

Otherwise critisizing him for getting basic facts wrongs as you get your own basic facts wrong comes off as hypocritical.

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm

And just what “basic facts” did I present? My “opinion” is that Glenn Beck is an “odious smear of fecal remnants”, much like Rush Limbaugh. The “basic fact” is that he is, biologically speaking, a human being. That is, until they prove the “bio-engineered flaming pile of talking crap” theory, which is currently right up there with the “conservative commenters are bat-shit crazy” theory.

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm

MM said:

in defending someone like that, you have obviously lost touch with what the rest of us call reality

Look at my post. Most of it was correctional toward certain falsehoods stated in the post and other commentators.

So apparently, by your reckoning, in correcting factual errors made about the man, I’ve lost touch with reality, which makes no sense.

Unless you believe that repeating lies about someone, even if they are an “odious smear of fecal remnants” is acceptable regardless of reality or morals.

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Mad Scientist said on April 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm

Guys, no point in arguing. The thread is over — it’s been Godwined already.

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm

“So apparently, by your reckoning, in correcting factual errors made about the man, I’ve lost touch with reality, which makes no sense.”

And from his first response:
“Let me be clear,” Mr. Beck said. “If someone tries to harm another person in the name of the Constitution or the ‘truth’ behind 9/11 or anything else, they are just as dangerous and crazy as those we don’t seem to recognize anymore, who kill in the name of Allah.”

Now, when Glenn has his next big push and finally incites his knuckle-dragging, NIMBY-spouting, holier-than-thou group of mentally deficient fans to the point where people start getting hurt, and he stands up and says “It’s not MY fault. I’m just an entertainer!”, we will see just where “your” reality lies and the truth begins. A demagogue is a demagogue, no matter the religion they follow nor the flag they wrap themselves in. You would do well to learn that salient point rather than try to defend the indefensible.

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The points about Teddy are drawn a lot from Jonah Goldberg’s book.

Which is impressive considering that Liberal Fascism is one of the downright stupidest books written in the last ten years, serving mainly to redefine “fascism” as “things Jonah Goldberg does not like” and to make dozens of flatly untrue arguments, such as the idea that conservatism had no populist existence prior to Benito Mussolini.

As watching any episode of the show you’ll see him denouncing partisanship and getting on republicans as much as democrats. (he’s about as happy with Bush as he is with Obama)

Prior to late 2008, Glenn Beck was firmly in Bush’s corner. It was only with nigh-total economic collapse and Bush’s willingness to bail out financial institutions that Beck fell off the love train for W, coincidentally just as Bush’s ability to effect political change of any kind disappeared. Saying “he criticizes Republicans just as much as Democrats” is historically not true; he’s been a right-wing cheerleader for practically his entire career, and much like others of his ilk (Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, et al) claims to “hold everybody to account equally” to make it seem otherwise.

But it’s just not the case.

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Constantinople said on April 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm

Challenger Grim said: “It was labeled in 1921. But unlike technology, idealiologies don’t just spring out whole cloth from nothing.”

And with the Label came the imagery people wanted for the idea. In this example, it’s the Axe-and-Sticks from Roman times, I think used as a symbol of “Order” or some such.

So, how can the symbol be used as a sign that the USA was heading towards Fascism before the symbol was even adopted as a sign of Fascism? Time-Travelling Dictators, as MGK said.

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm

“Who where those two ‘loose women’ getting into the TARDIS with The Doctor?”
“Why, those are the pair-a doxy’s of Time Travel!”

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“It was labeled in 1921. But unlike technology, idealiologies don’t just spring out whole cloth from nothing.”

Oh yeah, technological innovations never build on previous concepts. Someone just thinks ’em up! And then he sits down and, for the first time ever, solders together a microchip out of baling wire and chewing gum.

Ideologies, on the other hand, require a lot of investment in materials.

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Robert N. said on April 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm

“It would be if you didn’t know anything about Beck and just assumed he was partisan.”

Of course! Just like O’Reilly is an independent! A libertarian! (and even called himself once an “anarchist”, like I do sometimes when I call myself an “anarcho-capitalist” in my boring desperate urge to feel like some renegade radical — see folks thinking the big gummint are after folks like them, Beck and Ron Paul talking about militias etc)

And catering to libertarians is on the rise now that they’re testing the waters to see where the party goes — Palin’s direction or Ron Paul sort of folks? Hmmm… I’ll have to pretend I’m all for small gov and anti-nafta-highway, so I’ll do some stories about legalizing pot to fish some insanely gullible libertarians — spoiled pot-smoking republicans with chemical imbalances, in other words — even if I used to pee on their heads two weeks ago with the average republican talking point on the matter (I’ll still get to bash immigrants and propose fascism against them, and bash all sorts of programs to help poor people, specially if it includes black folks and anything else that doesn’t appeal to the most selfish spoiled vein of libertarians). But let’s entertain all that shit to hook Alex Jones/ Ron Paul folks in their fight against the commie-nazi NWO (I’ll even mention FEMA camps!). Damn but it won’t allow me to perpetually call for a nanny state, that I constantly say I hate, to police morality… Hmm. Well they’ll vote for Bush all over again if there are tax cuts, so let’s hit it.

And damn, to pull fucking Jonah Goldberg to justify someone’s insane stupidity is… well… (“listen, when he was saying ‘octupus sucking on Santa’s cock is the source of energy of the UN Black Helicopters that marxistly rape sharks’ it was mostly drawn from Harry Knowles’s book, ‘2+2=9’, so get your facts straight before mouthing off…”)

Dude, Beck made a show about wether Bush was Batman in The Dark Knight. It’s quite easy to make a u-turn when everybody hates him and when he’s ineffectual and pretty much gone (and even if there’s some degree of cynicism in Beck’s moves, he also shows clears signs of mental imbalance). It’s quite strange the weird ways that Bush-Palin constituency, average republicans, stormfront folks, Alex Jones and Ron Paul folks and Patriots-militia folk converge.

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm

“It’s quite strange the weird ways that Bush-Palin constituency, average republicans, stormfront folks, Alex Jones and Ron Paul folks and Patriots-militia folk converge.”

And such a deep, dark, soul-leaching, mind-numbing, ignorant, sucking vortex of stank it is!

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Holy shit, FRANCE!!! NOOOO!!! All those awful people striking and having balls when dealing with employers and government! So unlike the g20 radicals we try to appropriate their images from! Just cut to the chase and do it O’Reilly style already: compare protesters to child molesters…

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“You should watch more of Beck as he’s expressly begged for this to NOT happen.”

Yeah, and William Pierce said the Turner Diaries was only a work of fiction not to be taken literally. No one believed that pig shit either. Meanwhile, in reality, Glenn Beck goes on the air and tells his supporters that “We Surround Them” and somehow we’re supposed to believe that this isn’t a call to violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKUfmFL3Cs

Let’s take a look at the 9 Values of Turnip-head’s 9-12 project, shall we?

1. America Is Good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

Right off the bat we have stupidity, bigotry and dishonesty.

“Good” and “evil” are not objective values. Labeling any entity, organization or individual as an objective good is dishonest (Value 3). Only actions can be qualified as beneficial or abusive towards others.

Value #2 implies, once again, that America is a Christian Nation which is, by itself, not honest (Value 3). Also it requires that anyone that wants to be a part of the “good” nation of America to be Christian. Anyone who thinks this has their head up their ass and doesn’t know a thing about the spiritual beliefs of America’s forefathers.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

First of all, values 4 and 5 inherently contradict each other. One can not claim oneself as the ultimate authority and then suggest that they are not above the authority of those that uphold the law.

Secondly, the family is not sacred. Its emotional and psychological bonds are only as strong as those who participate in the family unit make them, and even then, there is nothing to suggest that those bonds are at all beneficial to those within it. I’m just waiting for Turnip-head to start up a campaign to stamp out child molesters and wife beaters by telling them to “Just Say No.”

I could also say that divorce and child custody are still legal, but that’s not what this value is really all about. Its about preventing gays from being married.

Also, in conjunction with value #1, value #5 is irrelevant. If America is objectively good then there is no reason to submit to authority and Justice at all.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

Translation: No one should expect the same amount of life, liberty or happiness as anyone else gets. Four legs good. Two legs better. Next pig-shit value.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

Basic libertarian anti-tax bullshit. Simply put, if you want to live in a society that protects its people from all enemies, foreign and domestic, both in the short term and the long term, then you’re going to pay taxes that will go to socially beneficial programs that seek to eliminate the economic and social desperation that establishes the domestic enemy known as crime.

Also, you don’t have the right to do business in this country. You have to obtain a license to do business, which means doing business, like driving a car, is a privilege and not a right. Get the fuck over it.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

While this is absolutely correct, it inherently contradicts values 1 and 2. If America is objectively good, then the American government, being part of America, is also good. If the American government is good then it does become bad, and thus un-American, to voice an opinion stating that any part of America is bad, especially an American authority.

Also believing in the Christian God goes directly against questioning authority.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

Not entirely incorrect, but its literal wording also contradicts value #5’s statement that no one is above “Justice”. People answer to the legal system. The legal system is part of the government. And the government, in part, does answer to the people.

Turnip-head is basically trying to create his own version of the Ten Commandments in his own warped, red, white and blue vision. Now whether he’s doing this for attention because Rush Limpdick was just getting so much more press than he has lately or if he has truly lost his marbles on this one is ultimately irrelevant. What is relevant is that he committing such an unethical and irresponsible act by promoting this half-assed nonsense.

While its personally hard for me to believe that anyone could actually concoct this list of half-assed values without any amount of forethought, but Challenger Grim’s statement that Beck is already pleading for people not to take his words as a road to violence tells me that this is exactly what the turnip-head did.

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Lister Sage said on April 2nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Zenrage: If 2 is a direct quote then that doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to mean a Christian God. I’m sure for Beck that’s what it means, but if I’d heard that as an Anonymous statement I wouldn’t know for sure which god “God” refers to. Just wanted to point that out.

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm

Which is impressive considering that Liberal Fascism is one of the downright stupidest books written in the last ten years, serving mainly to redefine “fascism” as “things Jonah Goldberg does not like” and to make dozens of flatly untrue arguments, such as the idea that conservatism had no populist existence prior to Benito Mussolini.

Didn’t argue for or against the book, just said that’s where it’s coming from.

Prior to late 2008, Glenn Beck was firmly in Bush’s corner. It was only with nigh-total economic collapse and Bush’s willingness to bail out financial institutions that Beck fell off the love train for W, coincidentally just as Bush’s ability to effect political change of any kind disappeared. Saying “he criticizes Republicans just as much as Democrats” is historically not true; he’s been a right-wing cheerleader for practically his entire career, and much like others of his ilk (Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, et al) claims to “hold everybody to account equally” to make it seem otherwise.

But it’s just not the case.

Need to check again. It was more like 2006:
From: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/11/gb.01.html
“But tonight, we bring you a story of abandonment, a story of two men whose lives have been turned upside down by the very people who put them into power. Chris Daughtry, America failed you. But President Bush? You did this to yourself.

Look, here`s the deal. I am a conservative, but I am not a zombie. When I look at an issue, I don`t see a donkey or an elephant. The parties, you`re dead to me. Politics really is all about common sense. And most of us, at least those of us who are going to be honest with ourselves, are able to embrace good ideas, no matter what party came up with them.

And that`s why I found my safe taking a hard look at George W. Bush lately. I`m actually starting to feel a little like John Kerry, flip- flopping on my opinion of him every day, you know. Sometimes I think that the biggest problem with G.W. is that he just might be the worst communicating president since Buchanan. And that`s only because Buchanan used the Pony Express.”

But then that was a common feature of a lot of conservatives. They were willing to give Bush a pass on some things because of 9/11 but W quickly used up most of that goodwill.

And with the Label came the imagery people wanted for the idea. In this example, it’s the Axe-and-Sticks from Roman times, I think used as a symbol of “Order” or some such.

So, how can the symbol be used as a sign that the USA was heading towards Fascism before the symbol was even adopted as a sign of Fascism? Time-Travelling Dictators, as MGK said.

Are you… agreeing with me? Because that was kind of my point, that the symbol on the dime seemed to be misused. But the clip did seem heavily edited so I wondered if there were larger contexts missing.

Oh yeah, technological innovations never build on previous concepts. Someone just thinks ‘em up! And then he sits down and, for the first time ever, solders together a microchip out of baling wire and chewing gum.

Ideologies, on the other hand, require a lot of investment in materials.

Overall? Of course tech is built over knowledge, previous advances, etc. But compared to ideologies…

BUT it’s also not entirely like tech were someone can say “oh in 1925 the president got on television” which can be concuslively proven wrong as we have a clear invention date for the technology.

And damn, to pull fucking Jonah Goldberg to justify someone’s insane stupidity is… well…

So… context is irrelevant? That’d be a little like complaining about a muslim or Islam without ever mentioning or acknowledging the Quaran.

Dude, Beck made a show about wether Bush was Batman in The Dark Knight.

First, that was a conservative meme circulating before Beck got ahold of it. In fact, he states as much that he had heard it before seeing the movie here:
http://www.truveo.com/Glenn-Beck-George-Bush-Batman-in-The-Movie-Dark/id/1059882994
“I wouldn’t concentrate on-that Batman is George Bush… I think this is just more of a movie – and it’s shocking to me – of conservative values on the War on Terror.”

And a whole show? Which one? I can only find this clip at the moment.

“We Surround Them” and somehow we’re supposed to believe that this isn’t a call to violence.

Ummm… yeah. No more than any other rallying cry of a group of people. Unless the right of the people to peacefully assemble has been revoked. In fact, his “We surround them” episode was a few weeks ago in the middle of March. Remember all those horrible acts of violence that broke out around the US… oh wait.

The rest of your post is so full of logic fail I don’t see any reason to bother…

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

“Sometimes I think that the biggest problem with G.W. is that he just might be the worst communicating president since Buchanan. And that`s only because Buchanan used the Pony Express.”

The biggest problem? Really? So the whole torture thing, the Katrina thing, the Iraq thing, the thousands of dead soldiers, hundreds of thousands of dead civilians, the Enron thing, the energy policy thing, the Habeas Corpus thing, the domestic spying thing, the yellowcake thing, the WMD thing, the financial thing, etc., etc., that all stems out of the fact he couldn’t communicate?

Well, I am glad you cleared that up for me, Challenger Grim, because here I thought he was just an untalented, incapable ex-drunk with delusions of grandeur and the power of the Republican Party behind him.

But you might as well believe what you want, because you will anyway, regardless of what the facts say. Oh, and one more thing:”In fact, his “We surround them” episode was a few weeks ago in the middle of March. Remember all those horrible acts of violence that broke out around the US… oh wait.”

Yeah, right. Give him a little time to crank up the rhetoric and we will see. I don’t trust him, and he have given me little reason to trust you.

Republicans! Bah!

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 5:31 pm

The biggest problem? Really?

He did say sometimes. Which doesn’t exclude that he thinks there are bigger problems other times. You should read the transcript. It yields such gems as:
“Finally, the immigration debacle. This is — this is the one that most hacks me off the most.”
There’s something beyond communication.

So the whole torture thing, the Katrina thing, the Iraq thing, the thousands of dead soldiers, hundreds of thousands of dead civilians, the Enron thing, the energy policy thing, the Habeas Corpus thing, the domestic spying thing, the yellowcake thing, the WMD thing, the financial thing, etc., etc., that all stems out of the fact he couldn’t communicate?

And then you follow with a list of “problems” though a lot seem to be based on misunderstandings or just ideology. Conservatives do have a different list of faults for W. Here’s a transcript of John Derbyshire’s list from his radio program (packaged as a joke about Obama):
Obama is determined not to repeat the mistakes of the George W. Bush administration, at any rate. Quote: “What I won’t do is return to the failed theories of the last eight years that got us into this fix in the first place, because those theories have been tested and they have failed.” End quote. Well, that’s good news. No more Bush-type policies, eh? So there’ll be no more reckless spending? No more bloating of the deficit? No more failure to veto obnoxious legislation — what was Bush’s final score? Twelve vetoes in eight years, was it? No more vast new entitlement programs? No more allowing uneducated foreigners to flood into the country in millions to displace American workers and burden our health and welfare systems and schools? No more stationing of American troops by the tens of thousands in places like Germany and Korea, which ought to be able to defend themselves? No more urging banks to relax lending standards to increase minority home-ownership? No more ten-year wars in no-account dustbowl countries with goat’n’donkey economies? No more loading our children and grandchildren up with debt obligations to China and Japan, to maintain an illusion of prosperity? This is really great news! I’m starting to like this Obama fellow! If that’s the way he’s going, we may have a conservative president again, after twenty years!

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MirrorMan said on April 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm

And yet you continue to defend this rather than explain it! It’s true, “there are none so blind as those who will not see”!

The conservative, Republican plan and ideals have failed. You lost. Time to review your mistakes and learn from them, if you can.

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Challenger Grim said on April 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pm

Defend or explain what? The fact that you seem to think “conservative” and “republican” are synonymous shows how mistaken you are. I don’t recall the biggest expansion of medicare since it was invented (prescription plan D) a Republican ideal. I also missed the enactment of austrian style economics over the last 8 years or the efforts to enforce immigration laws…

Wait I’ve forgotten what conservative ideals were tried the last 8 years. You should reread Derb’s point.

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Grendel72 said on April 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 am

It’s amazing, isn’t it, how now that he’s out of power “conservatives” want nothing to do with Bush. I seem to recall a time when saying anything even remotely opposed to Bush would have people like Grim calling us all traitors.

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Challenger Grim said on April 3rd, 2009 at 7:00 am

I wouldn’t have called you a traitor Grendel. Nor would several other conservatives I know. Of course, if doing “anything… remotely opposed” was considered traitorous, what about all the conservatives that pitched a fit over Harriet Myers, the amnesty bill, border patrol agents…

It’s not that he’s out of power. It’s that you haven’t been paying attention apparently.

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Okay, wait, I think we’ve moved past the point: the allegation that fasces were a symbol of, uh, fascism before their adoption by Mussolini in Italy in 1921 and the related allegation that I guess they have no other contextual meaning?

The fasces has, historically, been a symbol of republicanism – you can find it in revolutionary and postrevolutionary France, in South America after the wars of independence, and in the US. Why, you ask? Because it was one of the prominent symbols of the Roman Republic. And man oh man, those founders loved nothing if they didn’t love classical allusion. So why Mussolini? Rolling out with SPQR everywhere wasn’t nearly as much fun – or as effective in a country where nobody could read – as holding up fasces as a symbol of Roman power, with Mussolini here to reclaim it for the good of all the Italians. In short: it went on the dime because it was a symbol of Roman republicanism, and it went to Mussolini’s Italy because it was a symbol of the Romans.

In very short, that is. That was pretty simpled down, but, hey, it’s enough.

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Challenger Grim said on April 3rd, 2009 at 4:38 pm

Okay, wait, I think we’ve moved past the point: the allegation that fasces were a symbol of, uh, fascism before their adoption by Mussolini in Italy in 1921 and the related allegation that I guess they have no other contextual meaning?

In very short, that is. That was pretty simpled down, but, hey, it’s enough.

Agreed & seconded.

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And with each new day, Beck grows ever closer to the right-wing’s conspiracy nutbag corner. I’m waiting for him to praise Alex Jones as a credible journalist.

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