Not too long ago, I jokingly argued in favour of politicians being killed before they reach their natural expiration date. It might not have been a particularly good joke–that was certainly the opinion of a number of commenters–but it was a joke. I’d hope anyone reading it would be able to divine the post’s humourous intent, rather than a murderous one.
In the absence of any additional context, I can’t determine the intent of the person who posted the “Should Obama be killed?” facebook poll from the screen capture at Pam Spaulding’s blog. Perhaps there’s a clue in the Obama image attached to the poll–it’s too small for me to see clearly on any of my immediately available monitors.
Spaulding points out that facebook users can flag the poll as offensive, and she and TalkingPointsMemo.com (where I first learned of the thing) are reporting that the facebook poll app is currently down. There’s some debate in comments over whether the two situations are related, but even if they aren’t, it seems likely that particular poll won’t reappear.
I really wish there was some indication of what the creator of the poll was trying to accomplish by creating it. Knowing whether it’s the work of Trey Parker or Orly Taitz would help me. Part of me wants it to be the work of an artist who’s trying to make some sort of point. Another part fears it was written by some hapless schmuck who just didn’t see how another stupid facebook poll could create problems. God knows I’ve publicly posted things without considering how they might affect those who read them. If I gave that too much thought, I wouldn’t post anything at all.1
The commenters at TPM, at least, don’t seem to have as much problem as I do ascribing intent to the pollster. I haven’t read all the replies to the post, but the general concensus there seems to be that the person who created the poll is attempting to incite the pollees in some fashion. And they probably are, but on the basis of the available evidence, I’m not sure the pollster’s attempting to incite what the TPM commenters believe they are. The discussion of (and general support for) serious legal ramifications for the pollster worries me for a number of reasons. Some of them are even not entirely selfish.
It takes a lot for words to offend me2. So, absent a more specific indicator of what the pollmaker was going for, this poll doesn’t really bother me. Beyond the question of whether it’s tasteful to ask if someone should be killed3 , beyond the writer’s sense or lack of same in specifying the sitting US President as the potential target, what did this person do?
They asked a question. Given the nature of the question, who asked it is something the Secret Service is understandably going to want investigate. I’d think the people who answered “Yes”, if there were any, are also going to find themselves under a bit of a microscope–if I was the SS, I’d be more worried about those folks than the pollster, myself.
It was a provocative question, and I don’t know why the person who asked it wanted to provoke people. Until I do, the degree of vitriol being aimed at the (as far as I know, anonymous) questioner makes me uneasy.
People saying “This guy’s an ass”–that reaction makes sense to me.
Accusing the pollster of deliberately inciting people to violence against the President? I’ve got to admit, I don’t see it, but I’m 1) Canadian, 2) inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt, and 3) not as a general rule the biggest fan of politicians.
Wanting the person responsible arrested, solely on the basis of the phrasing of this particular poll…? Chris is a million times more qualified to discuss that than I am, but I’d hope that such an action would be an overreach, even for the American legal system. If it isn’t, that’s a legal net cast mighty wide–wide enough to catch artists, comedians, bloggers with a dubious sense of humour…
-Foley
PS: I wonder what the reaction would’ve been if the poll’s subject had been whether Dick Cheney should be killed. Or Osama bin Laden.
Disclaimer: The positions expressed in the preceding post–actually, in every post Andrew Foley’s ever made–do not necessarily reflect the opinion of MightGodKing.com, Christopher Bird, or Andrew Foley. Nothing to see here, move along.
- Which is partly why you haven’t seen anything from me here recently. After five years of blogging, knowing someone’s actually reading this stuff is more than a little disconcerting. [↩]
- Upsetting me, on the other hand–? Dead easy. [↩]
- Probably not, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t be funny or shouldn’t be asked. [↩]
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18 users responded in this post
Ever see photographs of a lynching, Andrew? Because those were as happening as late as the 1960s in America. The attitude behind the Facebook Poll reminds a lot of Americans of the disregard and disrespect for human life that led to lynchings, so I hope you’ll excuse us for being a little nervous.
I guess that’s where my disconnect is–I don’t perceive the same attitude behind the poll that you do, possibly because I’m not American, and possibly (the more I stare at it the more likely I think it is) because I can’t make out what the image in the “Barack! 08” icon is.
If I could perceive an attitude behind it other than a basic desire to provoke people–not necessarily racist idiots who might actually want to do something stupid, it could just as easily be aimed at people who want to restrict speech they find unsavoury…well, I wouldn’t have written the post.
From the text of the poll itself, in the absence of any other context, I don’t know that the person who posted it was racist. And it isn’t a natural instinct for me to assume they’re racist.
I don’t really know what to make of it, which could be the point if it’s intended as a piece of art rather than an implied threat.
Absent any other information, I expect the poll creator was probably just trying to be edgy, and likely expressing some political frustration.
However, those who think it’s something more have some justification. There’s been a nasty upswell in extremist rhetoric since the election, and some of it has carried over into action. Hardly a month has gone by since the inauguration without some act of right-wing extremist violence – the assassination of George Tiller is the most public, but there have been others. There’s also the disruptions at health care related town hall meetings, which has escalated to a handful of protesters actually openly carrying firearms outside the meeting halls. A lot of us are casting memories back to the rhetoric during the Clinton years, and that led to Oklahoma City.
This guy? Probably just an asshole. But we don’t know for sure, and that gets people scared. Not enough to justify violating due process or the presumption of innocence (but then nothing does), but enough for the Secret Service to give a few people the hairy eyeball.
This seems to be the image being used: http://www.inboxity.com/content/obama-borat-parody.jpg
I don’t know if that clarifies anything.
Andrew,
I’d say that I was one of your vocal detractors in that previous thread, and even I acknowledged that you weren’t serious (“bad satire” I think I called it).
The sad fact is that politics in America has a history of violent extremism. Take a look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_assassination_attempts 17 out of 44. Even if you discount the attempts on Nixon, Clinton, and Bush 43, Ford and Regan had pistols pulled on them and Regan was actually shot. And that’s just Presidents. Look at the history of violent death among prominent black leaders in America. America has a nasty habit of solving problems through gun violence, a nasty history of racial violence and a lot of hot air on the web about how Obama isn’t a real American, and a usurper, and destroying America from within. Pictures of Obama as Hitler, aggressively trying to paint him (literally in the ‘Obama as Joker’ posters) as the other, and the insidious enemy. This sort of thing should rightfully make people unsettled.
It wasn’t “Should Obama not be President” or “Should Obama go away” it was “Should Obama be Killed.” As much as I didn’t like your article, it’s very clear from context you’re not serious and you had (somewhat) of a larger point. There doesn’t appear to be any context for this poll to suggest it’s anything other than serious.
“And it isn’t a natural instinct for me to assume they’re racist.”
That’s awesome, man. I mean that seriously. It’s wonderful to have that attitude, and I hope someday we can all mature enough to share it with you. But the fact of the matter is that there is a coarseness, a meanness, and an immaturity in America vis. our political dealings with each other, and it seems to be getting worse instead of better. This poll is just another symptom of it.
What you’re missing is that threatening the president or certain other high government officials is specifically outlawed in the US Federal Code:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000871—-000-.html
Doesn’t matter if you’re joking (though usually people who are obviously joking and just being morons don’t get thrown in jail for it; they often will get non-friendly visits from the Secret Service.)
The lesson: DON’T DO IT.
I gotta say, I don’t see anything here other than rampant stupidity. Could they be racist? Sure. They could also be somebody with strong anti-Obama feelings based entirely on his policies, or just somebody trolling the Interwebs. As we all know, there are plenty of people that post provocatively on the ‘net for no greater reason than to piss people off for the amusement value they get out of it. In that context it could actually be a troll that *supports* Obama, but wanted to troll for reactions, we simply cannot know.
Verkle – a question isn’t a threat. Even if the question were “Do you think I should kill the president?” that would not, IMO, be a threat; although it skirts the line a bit too close for comfort.
As an aside it’s worth noting that not only does the country have a history of violent extremism regarding politics, that it is also founded on the same. I.e. The Boston Tea Party and Revolutionary War. That doesn’t justify anything of course, but it’s worth noting for context.
For the record, I personally do support Obama. This response in more in the nature of open-minded dialogue than anything else.
I would hope more people would vote for Cheney and Bin Laden to be tried than murdered.
How many attempts on Canadian Prime Ministers have there been?
The issue here is context. Right now, right-wing incitement to violence is a pretty serious problem (and a pretty large industry) in this country, and the related violence and murder is very much on the rise.
To put it another way, a flaming bag of dog poop on your doorstep is just immature nonsense, right? But if an arsonist has already burned down half a dozen houses in your town, that flaming bag on your porch looks pretty different.
For whatever it’s worth, in Colorado, at least, there apparently is a charge of “conspiracy to commit depraved indifference [to human life]” I forget the exact wording. In the case I’m thinking about, it was for some stage of the planning of a school shooting that was nipped in the bud.
We’ve also had an FBI arrest of some dumb kid around here for emailing them threatening Obama directly and claiming to have car bombs at the Mall of America.
And as much as we’d like to pretend Obama’s election as president means we’ve turned some corner, Threats to black leaders are still just a little bit more credible than threats to white leaders here.
And then there’s this, which Chris himself posted above this entry:
http://ludickid.livejournal.com/937054.html#
Doesn’t matter if you’re joking (though usually people who are obviously joking and just being morons don’t get thrown in jail for it; they often will get non-friendly visits from the Secret Service.)
Which, in fact, what is apparently going to happen to these dumbshits.
I don’t think the Secret Service usually refers to themselves by their initials, and they’d probably prefer that others not do so either. I’m just guessing on that, though.
I have to agree with some of the other American posters- right now there seems to be a lot of hatred and anger directed towards the left from the right over so many things. Look at the town hall disruptions, or the fact that people are now bringing guns to the meetings, and to appearances by Pres. Obama. There was one preacher who publically prayed for God to give Obama terminal brain cancer.
I don’t know what the intent of the poll’s poster was, but I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who answered “Yes” and meant it, and hoped for it to happen.
It may not have been a threat, but the poll served as one more little step in mainstreaming the violent discourse of the extreme right. That may not be illegal, but it is certainly distasteful and the creator should feel some heat over it.
@Navy_Blue
LOL
Sorry I’m late to the party on this one, but I was, um, yeah on vacation for a month or so.
Anyway, for starters I’ve really got to second Navy Blue, there. I like to think of the Secret Service as a pretty honorable and laudable organization of selfless patriots, and comparisons to the SS make my last little shreds of trust in the government cringe. Because, you know, the Praetorian Guard didn’t always have the Emperors’ best interests at heart, etc.
Second, okay I agree that the political rhetoric of the right is indeed getting creepier and more “Oh shit are we about to have to fight in the streets with f-ing AMERICAN brownshirts soon or watch the Capitol Building get burned down?” by the second, but as far as violent political extremism goes, is the United States even close to a top contender? Ireland? Palestine? The former Soviet Union? Cambodia? China? Germany of several decades past? Yes, we’ve had our share of significant political figures murdered, but I think in terms of extremist mayhem and bloodshed, the United States is actually somewhat mild.