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I was immensely disappointed with both. I can’t quite articulate why or what it was that irked me so, but out of the entire line of Discworld books I’d considered both amongst the weakest he’s produced. Not terrible books, but immensely unsatisfying.

Though I can point to one thing I disliked about the Tiffay Aching books, the romance. It wasn’t very good as romance goes, and detracted from what I usually enjoy about the Aching books, namely the Nac Mac Feegle. Kind of felt more like a generic young adult book more than a Discworld book.

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Actually, the heavy romance overtones of Unseen Academicals was also distracting. Pratchett does a lot of things really well, imo romance isn’t one of those things.

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You know, dammit, rather than focusing on blank-slate vampire kissers, I wish someone would make Tiffany Aching movies (especially now that we have no further adventures of Hermione [and friends] to look forward to). Maybe Alfonso Cuaron? Wintersmith, especially, could be really visually spectacular.

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protocoach said on August 25th, 2011 at 11:14 am

I don’t know, I’ve always liked the fact that Pratchett’s romances aren’t solely confined to LOOK AT THESE TWO BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE the way a lot of fiction is.

And I liked “Unseen Academicals” a lot. I’m sure a lot of the jokes flew over my head, not being a fan of soccer, but the story was fun, the satire was still pretty sharp, and the characters were the same sort of deeply relateable people Pratchett’s been writing for years now.

I never got into the witches storylines past “Equal Rites,” so I haven’t read the Tiffany Aching books, but I’ve heard so many good things about them and I like Pratchett’s writing so much that I’m going to have to go back and read them some time.

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I’m just incredibly glad that we’re getting another Night Watch book out of him this year.

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I quite enjoyed Unseen Academicals, but I’d have to say the best Pratchett book in the past five years was 2008’s non-Discworld book, “Nation.” Had the chance to read that one, John?

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While neither book fits in the ‘bad’ Discworld category (I reserve that for Pyramids and Monstrous Regiment), they didn’t really feel top tier to me either. With Unseen Academicals, I guess my main objection is that the football stuff really interesting to me in and of itself, which is a cultural gap more than anything, I guess.

“I Shall Wear Midnight” (brilliant title) got past my problem with book 2 and 3, which was that the plots were virtually identical: Tiffany, through a combination of arrogance and ignorance, accidentally unleashes a force beyond her control, realizes that it’s somewhat misunderstood, and comes to terms with it. That’s a good plot to couple with a “young adult” theme of growth and learning, but that doesn’t mean I want to see it over and over again. “Midnight” breaks that mold a bit, and actually sells me (eventually) on the love interest as well. The only thing I really didn’t like about the book was the emphasis on the Boffo shop, which felt like a joke that had exhausted itself in the last book.

But for me, both pale in comparison with Nation. It’s a great allegory for the development of civilization, and even sheds some light on what Pratchett’s been doing with Discworld. Plus, it’s a pretty decent narrative in its own right.

But they both pale in comparison with Nation, for me.

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I do like that Pratchett’s romance isn’t about beautiful people falling madly in love at first sight. Sometimes he takes it too far in the other direction, though. The romantic relationship developing between the protagonist and another main character should not be nearly as much of a background event as it was for Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin.

The only thing about Unseen Academicals that really bugged me was that the existence of football on the Discworld came out of nowhere. Sure, History Monks can retcon anything, but it still seems like cheating. It’s hard to believe football is really as big in Ankh-Morpork as it seems to be here if it was never mentioned in literally dozens of books. Other than that, nice Discworld fun, with lots of situational humor and fantasy-analogues of real-world things and stuff. Good times.

This post brings up yet another thing (like several older posts I’ve read while browsing the archives here) I had never thought of but wish I had: Pratchett’s mortality and its impact on the books. I mean, sure, I know that he doesn’t have long, but I have just been thinking about that in terms of when he would be literally incapable of putting together a narrative. I hadn’t thought about him dwelling on his mortality and whether and how that would impact his outlook and choice of themes and stuff, but in hindsight it should have been obvious.

Haven’t read Tiffany Aching, but judging by what people have to say here, maybe I should.

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Sigh. I didn’t see that I hadn’t deleted the final line there. It’s Amateur Blog Posting Hour, folks.

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My inner Tolkien nerd requires me to note that problems were solved with the return of the king only temporarily (though it was a rather long temporarily), and the wizards most certainly did not know better than everyone else; they knew MORE, certainly, but they were as fallible as anyone else and showed it in some of the screw-ups they made or just barely avoided. The orcs we’ll call a draw, as Tolkien never liked that idea either, and even posited that there were communities of non-evil orcs in Middle-earth we just never meet in the course of the story, but he never worked out those ideas satisfactorily before his death, and the actual text contains no hint of it, so yeah.

That said, I believe this calls for a “So You Want To get Into Discworld” post. I’ve been told by multiple people not to start at teh beginning with the Color of Magic, but if that’s the case, where should I start? Discworld stands alongside Game of Thrones in Popular Nerd Things I Should Be Reading But Have Yet To Start.

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@rbx5

As for where to get into Discworld, mileage varies. I’d recommend going to the Wikipedia entry on the Discworld, picking one of the storylines they list that sounds interesting to you, and starting there. Wizards are pretty much at the bottom of the list for me, personally: I like the ones on Death, the City Watch, the Witches (although I think there’s a thinness to Wyrd Sisters that some of Pratchett’s early stuff has–I think Witches Abroad is really where that storyline finds its tone), and Moist Von Lipwig. But any way you slice it, you’re in for a great time.

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@ rbx5: I’d recommend “Guards! Guards!”, personally. It’s early, but not before Pratchett found his stride or whatever one would call it and settled on a tone for the series. Sets up continuity, but doesn’t depend on it. FWIW, I happen to like the City Watch “subseries” the most*, of which GG is the first, but someone who prefers a different subseries might recommend a different starting point.

* I think Death is the only character who has appeared in every book, and he’s not a major character in most. Instead, there are half a dozen characters or small groups of characters who are each the main characters of some novels and appear in other novels as only minor characters, or not at all. The City Watch subseries is about law enforcement in a city somewhere between Victorian London and a D&D setting, complete with a Thieves’ Guild and stuff.

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Tenken347 said on August 25th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

Cyrus, football was previously mentioned as a major pastime in “Jingo,” and I feel certain that it was mentioned once in another one of the books as well.

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Quote: The romantic relationship developing between the protagonist and another main character should not be nearly as much of a background event as it was for Sam Vimes and Sybil Ramkin. /quote

I liked the fact Sam Vimes romantic life didn’t overtake the story and mostly happened off screen. It wasn’t a major factor in the plot of Guards Guards so it didn’t recieve undue attention. It was important for Sam’s character development in later books and the source of his sobreity, but I felt it recieved as much attention as it warranted.

I didn’t care for the romance in UA and Midnight for the same reason I didn’t care fot it in Thief of Time or the love triangle in Thud!, it didn’t add much to the plot and didn’t strike me as terribly important for the characters.

Likewise the football bugged me. Like Cyrus said it came out of no where. With other themes or ideas that eventually recieved attention, they were usually mentioned somewhere before hand in an earlier stories. Not so with football. Sport in general has never been associated with Ankh-Morpork, except Bar Brawling. That was what I thought the popular Morporkian ‘sport’ was based on earlier books.

Also the fact it was promoted as a Wizard book, but they turned out to be little more than supporting players for a pair of star crossed lovers who just happen to be a little less conventionally attractive than they are in most other books.

Really, the more I think about UA the more I dislike it in particular.

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Even if it had been mentioned offhandedly or in a brief joke in a book or two, it’s still a hell of a lot more important in UA than it was in previous novels. Half a dozen novels about The City Watch, and Colon and Nobby never got stuck in a football crowd? There’s a joke used at least once in previous books and probably more about how it’s easy to commit suicide in AM (such as by picking a fight in a bar, or getting struck by lightning after blasphemy), but no mention of suicide in a football fight?

But admittedly, I had the impression that football had not been mentioned at all in the series until UA itself, and if I was wrong about that, fair enough, my mistake.

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What are the odds I’d have finished I Shall Wear Midnight one hour before reading this? Personally I think it’s the best Tiffany book as we see the gel on her way to becoming the next Granny Weatherwax! I liked how the romance between Preston kinda creeped up on her and that she got a guy of her own. Best fo all, we finally find out something of what happened to Eskarina!

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My take on UA was that it did suffer from Pratchett’s impending retirement, not because the quality of writing had declined, but because he was trying to cram more ideas into the book than he usually does for fear of not getting to write another one. There were three plotlines that could have been the focus of an entire book (football, orcs, and high fashion), and trying to shoehorn all three of them into a single volume meant that they all felt a little underdeveloped (the fashion angle most of all).

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Unseen Academicals… I actually did a LOL at one point. That I haven’t done that with a Discworld book since Small Gods means something to me.

And yeah, he seems to be wrapping things up. Most everyone is getting their proper endings.

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MarvinAndroid said on August 25th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

@MIB Sam Raimi was supposed to be attached to a Wee Free Men movie back in 2008, but it fell through. It depends strongly on finding a good actress for Tiffany and Dakota Fanning can’t do it, so it might take Hollywood a while to find a talented unknown for the part.

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Rand Brittain said on August 25th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

I thought Unseen Academicals was perfect except for the parts about the goddess Pedestria, which seemed unnecessary and stuck out like a sore thumb in a book that was otherwise fairly critical of gods.

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I’m a bit behind on the Tiffany books so I have yet to read ISWM.

I was disappointed with Unseen Academicals. That’s partly because I don’t really care about sports and partly because I’m generally under-whelmed by the Wizard books. I’d have rather have the rumored third Moist book or another Watch book.

Still, it was nice to see a certain monster hunting holy man come back.

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I enjoyed both books, though I agree with Funkula that UA probably had too much book crammed into it. Midnight was delightful, though, and I loved seeing that spoilery character from an early book turn up.

I definitely feel like Pterry is wrapping things up, and it makes me sad. I strongly suspect that Snuff is going to be the last Watch book. I just hope he keeps writing for as long as he possibly can– is that selfish of me?

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I’m in the “unfocused” camp on UA, but I was very impressed with Midnight. One thing that really struck me about it was how passionate a book it was. To my wife and I, Pratchett seemed like he had a lot to say on the topic of judgement and hypocrisy, and he came out swinging with real fury. It probably has the angriest tone of any DW book I can remember…it’s nice to see him getting fired up about things that he wants to speak about while he still can…

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(Anyone planning to burn Granny Weatherwax as a witch would wind up having the first mob in history that went home after a sharp scolding.)

If this hasn’t been a scene yet, I demand it. It would be great as one of those little one-off characterization scenes at the beginning of the book… and if one were to write a final Witches book, it would be nice to have that scene followed by the last meeting between Granny and Death. Because Tiffany is ready to take over (or Nanny, depending on how you prefer to look at it) and if we must say goodbye to Discworld, I think we’re ready to say goodbye to Granny.

Or not.

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Given that the witches books are, at their core, about stories, having the last Discworld story be about them would seem quite apropos.

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It is amazing the degree to which fantasy writing by British men can be interpreted as an Oedipal rebellion against Tolkein.

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@Bill: Y’know, I never thought of it quite like that, but it’s actually very true.

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