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mygif

“It practically writes itself.”

That should be the corporate strategy. Synergize fan interaction and authorial intent.

We keep telling these guys what we want and we’d be willing to give them money if we got it.

How can you be a corporation cynical enough to just ignore fan opinion but not cynical enough to take our money? The mind, it boggles.

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L. A. Julian said on January 26th, 2015 at 6:19 pm

Well, I’ve been watching the Mortdecai mess with a catlike interest(1), and it’s fascinating to see how Depp and his backers simply refused to listen to fans telling them ever since Charlie & the Chocolate Factory that no, we really did NOT want to see more of Depp gurning & capering in some extravagant caricature under layers of costume and makeup, we wanted to see him ACTING again in proper roles — and over and over again this has been met with a huge scoffing insult-plus-injury.

“No, what you people REALLY want is a Lone Ranger remake that openly jeers at the original story and characters, and makes no sense in itself — with Johnny Depp playing a caricature of a Noble Savage under heavy makeup and a dead bird! Wait, how about an out-of-touch vampire under heavy makeup, which also has the benefit of being a derisive remake of YET ANOTHER beloved old property?”

“Oh, you don’t like him in heavy makeup and outlandish costumes, acting the fool? Fine! Have Johnny Depp sleepwalking through an incomprehensible plot in which he LITERALLY phones his performance in over a modem! Hahaha!”

“Wait, you said that was boring — so you must want MORE Johnny Depp in a strange costume and makeup, playing an outlandish caricature of a British lord in another rehash of an exceptionally obscure older property that LITERALLY NOBODY was asking for, right? And you’re going to love it so much that we’ll keep churning them out forever!”

“So why are we losing money each time, if we’re so much smarter than the moviegoing public?”

(1) Specifically, the cat wondering if the flapping bird-on-the-ground is merely pretending to be injured, or actually HAS a broken wing to make it worth the pounce.

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mygif

Well, I don’t know about the wrestling, but I honestly enjoyed Mortdecai. It had several great laughs in it.

Then again, my favorite Johnny Depp is “crazy shouty quirky man,” rather than anyhting deep or meaningful.

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Cookie McCool said on January 26th, 2015 at 7:46 pm

Philly fans would turn on their own mothers in an arena-situation so that was a pretty bad place to try this crap out on if you want a positive result.

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mygif

The 2014 Rumble was a fascinating display when it came to the fans. Heck, their reactions to yet another Cena/Orton match before the Rumble itself was a sight to behold. The 2015 Rumble not only had the problems you mentioned, but it was also just flat out boring. No real shocking returns (YMMV for Bubba Dudley & DDP, and no one cares about the Boogyman), Kofi’s spot was due more to luck than skill, no one person dominated. It was just dull, something the Rumble hardly ever is.

Incidentally, you might not get as many hits on your wrestling articles than you do on others, but I always enjoy reading your thoughts on the subject.

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L. A. Julian said on January 26th, 2015 at 11:29 pm

It isn’t the quirkiness in itself I mind exactly, so much as the surrounding horribleness of everything else, although with Burton’s Alice it was about equal I have to say.

Vomit humour, sexist & homophobic humour, cartoonish violence in a non-cartoon setting, “witty” wordplay that isn’t, and a “caper” plot that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever are not things I find amusing or entertaining. Try to pass it off as “retro” the way Koepp and Depp have, and it’s just insulting — the old movie comedies didn’t stoop to gross-out gags in the Adam Sandler vein.

On the other hand, the reviews for it absolutely are entertaining and watching this smirking pig in lipstick get turned to critical bacon does warm the stony cockles of my heart!

And such corporate hubris is just as fascinating to read about — and encouraging in its downfall — in the world of live entertainment. We don’t get enough backstage analysis of wrestling in the mainstream media.

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mygif

what the fuck did you expect, wrestling fans? properly inflated footballs?!

here’s a novel idea, wrestling fans: just stop wasting your money on wrestling gear, wrestling posters, wrestling video games, wrestling underwear, wrestling pop tarts, wrestling tickets. Just stop. Goddammit, stop being addicts to a shitty drug.

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mygif

I will keep watching football, I admit. But I ain’t wasting $75 on shitty jerseys or $200 on shitty gameday tickets.

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mygif

First off, you say wrestling fans, but the problem is WWE. Any smaller wrestling company having someone half as popular as Bryan is going to push the hell out of him. It’s only the big corporation that messes this up.

Anyway, I was there, and all I can say is if you’re going to try and shove someone down the audience’s throat you really can’t do it in Philly. Title match was pretty sweet though.

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mygif

I think I need to stop going to wrestling events. The only two I’ve been to in the last several years are this year’s Rumble and last year’s Rumble.

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Parasite Unseen said on January 27th, 2015 at 9:53 am

I’m just glad that the title match came before the Rumble, because it deserved every cheer it got. As soon as Bryan was eliminated, I knew that anyone who got in that ring without being named CM Punk was going to have a very rough night.

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mygif

I recall another big, national wrestling company that went out of business because they had too many corporate suits trying to call things.

WWE bought them.

At the rate they’re going, I could see WWE maybe not go out of business, but certainly lose a lot of business.

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mygif

The chants of “John Cena sucks” that you hear today are reactions against the stability and predictability and seemingly endlessly length of John Cena’s reign as Top Guy, rather than against John Cena himself – most wrestling fans who chant “Cena sucks” will readily admit that the guy himself is a fine wrestler who can really work a great match and whose work with Make-A-Wish kids is nothing short of remarkable.

As a non-wrestling guy, I’m curious: is it accurate to say that the audience ends up playing a role as much as the wrestlers? Or at least doing so to some extent?

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mygif

As a non-wrestling guy, I’m curious: is it accurate to say that the audience ends up playing a role as much as the wrestlers? Or at least doing so to some extent?

Moreso than the audience does in practically any other art form. I’ve written about that before here.

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mygif

So lemme see if I’ve got this straight: the WWE has built Lesnar up into this force of nature – he ends the Undertaker’s streak, he suplexes the usually dominant Cena into paste and rises off a hospital gurney to put away both Cena and Rollins – and The Fans want the guy to put a stop to him be this 5’10”, 210lb beardy bloke. As a face ?

That is going the Full Guerrero. That is suspension of disbelief squared. That is “wrestlng is fake” writ large.

I like the guy, I really do, but I prefer a smidge of plausibility in a storyline. Reigns is a FAR more believable vanquisher of Lesnar as it stands.

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Peztopiary said on January 27th, 2015 at 9:55 pm

Except Reigns is terrible and his name is also terrible. Nobody who names themselves Reigns should ever get within eyeshot of the belt, especially not as a face. Sure, you could do Reigns reign if he’s wrestling as a heel, but it’s too much like cheering on Bane if he’s a face.

What people want is to pretend that clotheslining a dude will knock him flat and that when he struggles to his feet you can jump off the corner and kick him in the face without anyone actually being hurt. Have you seen Bryan wrestle? He’s really good at flying around like a bearded luchador. He’s also really good at hitting people. Reigns is not. He’s good at being big and bad, but he can’t do the flying stuff because of all that mass.

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mygif

Good article.My only problem with the Mordecai analogy, is that the corporate types that pushed that pile of crap probably didn’t have any idea about what makes a good movie.

But this is Vince freakin’ McMahon we’re talking about!This is all he does! After 30 years he should know what works,what doesn’t,when to push someone, and when it’s time to stop.This is what’s so frustrating.

It’s not some AOL/Time Warner exec wanting to make a Kiss Demon or David Arquette World Champion. It’s Vince McMahon pushing a guy who obviously is not ready to be pushed.

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mygif

Peztopiary – Bryan is a great wrestler, and he gets cheers, but he doesn’t shift business in a meaningful way. He’s not even 1993 Bret Hart, because Hart got awesome returns on international tours.

Is Reigns the answer? Probably not. But at least he’s untested in terms of headlining a PPV solo. Bryan had his chance and, quite honestly, his title reign sucked before he got injured.

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mygif

I disagree that no one bt Bryan could beat Lesnar and Reigns is the other guy. You’ve got to be pure high impact offense to take out Lesnar. That’s what Reigns offense is.

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Docrailgun said on January 29th, 2015 at 9:31 am

WWE’s issues start at the top and has been systemic since the 90s when Vince Russo somehow convinced the McMahons that his style of “storyline” was to have fifteen minute segments where a guy cuts a promo in the ring for thirteen minutes and there’s maybe two minutes of a beatdown. Things got slightly better when Russo left for WCW (where he’d do the same thing and ran that promotion into the ground), but Vince continued to insist that people wanted huge muscled meatheads on their screens. He pushed the wrestlers with these body types over smaller wrestlers with actual talent both in the ring and on the mic.
Really the moral of the story is: Vince Russo has destroyed professional wrestling on his own. Someone needs to hire Jim Cornette and let him clean house – even WWE could be saved if Vince could do that.

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mygif

Speaking as the World’s Most Casual wresting fan, is it possible they’re angling to have Reigns beat Lesnar, turn heel, then have Bryan take Reigns? (I doubt it myself, but I felt compelled to ask.)

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mygif

I went with the exact same reservations into Mortdecai which L.A. Julian mentioned in the first post and came out enjoying it hugely. It reminded me very much of how Peter Sellers portrayed Inspector Clouseau in the Pink Panther movies.

Just wanted to leave that here, because I am somewhat sad about the bad rep this movie is getting. Although I understand that a lot of people probably won’t like that sense of humor. Paul Bethany was great in the movie, too.

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mygif

Docrailgun- Cornette made fans dislike RoH from what I understand. There’s nothing he could do for WWE

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mygif

Reigns beats departing Lesnar = new top face
Rollins *immediately* cashes in Money in the Bank = confirmed top heel
Bryan defeats Rollins = “fans” finally happy.

Would that be good business ?

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mygif

@zippy8

Here’s where it gets kinda confusing. In story, WWE fans hate Rollins. From a meta perspective, we love Rollin’s athletic ability and his continued improvement on the mike. If he cashes in on Reigns he stands a good chance to get cheered. A similar thing happened to Dolph Ziggler.

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mygif

Kinda reminds me of the plot to “Slammed” (yes, I’m enough of a nerd to only relate to professional wrestling insofar as it reminds me of Choose Your Own Adventure games).

By the way MGK, have you played / read it? It’s got decent plot / characters, and is apparently full of inside jokes.

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mygif

A privileged position in freestyle wrestling and WWE Almichat

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mygif

Kinda reminds me of the plot to “Slammed” (yes, I’m enough of a nerd to only relate to professional wrestling insofar as it reminds me of Choose Your Own Adventure games).

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mygif

I slightly disagree.

Yes, the Rumble was HORRIBLE. It was awfully booked, nothing was important, the special appearances, Bray’s monstering run, the elemenations of favorites, even Kane’s record breaking..nothing was treated as important.

But for the people watching at the time, it wasn’t the bad booking they were booing..it was just them hating everything that was NOT BRYAN!

After the fact, we can analyze and say why it was wrong, but the folks there, it was just NOT BRYAN, dumping on everyone.

Had Andy Kaufman showed up, revealing his death was a 25 year angle, and he took out Bryan, everyone would still boo, because NOT BRYAN!

Now I admit, I’m not a Bryan fan…I’ve watched some matches, but he might do a move technically correct, it doesn’t “feel real”. He doesn’t wow me on the mic. But the single thing I dislike about him the most are his fans.

Now, I’m not a Reigns fan..not a hater either. I’m hoping he rises to the challenge…I got interested in wrestling again in part from last years RSPW awards, where hew was named most improved.

If I had my pick for booking, I’d just have Finn Balor come out at WM31, in full symbiote make-up, and just eat Brock’s head.

Now, THAT’S, best for business.

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mygif

“just have Finn Balor come out at WM31, in full symbiote make-up, and just eat Brock’s head”

Now *that* is $9.99’s worth of entertainment 😉

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