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mygif

The Ron Paul crew are wise to that stunt. I’ve seen other blogs do it. The response in the comments typically runs like:

“ha ha, yeah, there are a lot of us. but what’s so crazy about … [CTRL-V]”

In all seriousness, though, yay grassroots.

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J. Bryan Shoup said on November 9th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

Haha, I love Ron Paul. And when I saw your comment, having read your material for years, my response was “Awwww, don’t say that, Mr. Bird.”

I’d love to see Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich sit down and debate politics. They both appeal to the Constitution more than others in their respective parties, and they both have much bolder visions for these United States.

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mygif

“No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.”

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd WORD. I love this guy already.

“It is fundamentally unfair to give benefits to anyone who has not paid into the system. The Social Security for Americans Only Act (H.R. 190) ends the drain on Social Security caused by illegal aliens seeking the fruits of your labor.”

Again, agreed.

“As an OB/GYN doctor, I’ve delivered over 4,000 babies. That experience has made me an unshakable foe of abortion. Many of you may have read my book, Challenge To Liberty, which champions the idea that there cannot be liberty in a society unless the rights of all innocents are protected. Much can be understood about the civility of a society in observing its regard for the dignity of human life.”

He…kinda loses me here. While the lack of Bible-beating is certainly refreshing, a hard-line stance against abortion strikes me as a bit’ve a red flag.

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mygif

The best thing about Ron Paul is that he wants to end all government meddling in education and hand educational responsibilty back to the parents ina return to a more innocent time, when we were free of pesky things like “integration” and “civil rights.”

I mean, if David Duke and Stormfront support him, he’s got to be good!  Come on, who’s with me here?  Armbands, anyone?

Help me burn a cross to show my cultural heritage and dedicated opposition to the UN’s global tyranny!

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mygif

“No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.”

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd WORD. I love this guy already.

Errrrm… that doesn’t sound so great to me…

(1) Unless you have some other nifty idea to keep infectious diseases from hopping between illegal immigrants and everyone else, I’d really rather that everyone still have access to clinics.

(2) Roads are usually paid through gas taxes. Unless illegal immigrants are driving cars powered by fairy dust and moonbeams, they’re also taxpayers when it comes to roads.

(3) Does he say anything, anywhere about employers? He doesn’t in the essay you’re quoting, at least. From what he’s written, it’d seem he just wants to make sure that illegal immigrants are as desperate and as useful as possible as strikebreakers, without any sanctions at all for employers hiring them. (Note his strong approbation for immigrants who “want to work hard” while simultaneously making it impossible for them to unionize or make legal complaints about ill-treatment.)

(4) Does he say anything about reforming the legal immigration system? Again, he says nothing about it in the essay you’re quoting. I’d have a lot less sympathy for illegal immigrants if the legal system weren’t FUBARed beyond imagination.

I’m with mightygodking, even if he is just trying to drive up traffic. Granted, Mr. Paul is a huge improvement on the neocons, in roughly the same way that losing a leg is vastly preferable to being incinerated, but I think we can do better still.

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mygif

Well said, Llelldorin. (You too, Dayv)

Ron Paul is the only candidate who is tough on illegal immigrants and critical of the Iraq war and this is giving him a lot of support in the “judge solely on initial reactions” market. Unfortunately his social policy mimics too much of the BNP and if he has the John Birch Society’s support, you know you gotta keep a careful eye on this guy.

And despite what many liberal-minded people may think, Illegal immigration is not about race. Illegal immigrants of the USA can come from any other country in the world, so why should Mexicans get to play the race card just because they make up the majority of the criminal element?

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Master Mahan said on November 10th, 2007 at 12:31 am

Yeah, while I appreciate Ron Paul being against the Iraq War, he loses me with things like his total opposition to separation of church and state. His belief that the UN wants to confiscate our firearms and impose a global tax is just a touch insane, thank you very much.

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mygif

I’m pretty sure you mean total *support* for the separation of church and state. If anything, Dr. Paul is a raging Constitutionalist. “Congress shall make no law,…” means exactly that. The American Revolution was in defense of Liberty. The Ron Paul Revolution is a fight to restore our liberties, before they’re lost forever to an oversized, overfed, and overly intrusive Federal government.

Send him a check. http://www.ronpaul2008.com

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mygif

He’s also insane.

That’s kind of a dealbreaker.

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J. Bryan Shoup said on November 11th, 2007 at 1:24 pm

Dayv Says:

The best thing about Ron Paul is that he wants to end all government meddling in education and hand educational responsibilty back to the parents ina return to a more innocent time, when we were free of pesky things like “integration” and “civil rights.”

I took much more offense at this as a teacher of Logic than as a fan of Ron Paul. Unless this entire post was in jest and you actually support or are undecided about Paul, your Logic is confusing and ridiculous.

If you’ve read Paul’s work, for one, you know that he, as with many libertarian-leaning conservatives, views racism as a form of collectivist thinking, and therefore despises it.

Regardless, your Logic is simply flawed. If you are referring to handing educational responsibility to a time free of government meddling, that is not necessarily connected to the 1950’s public school system. What you are describing would be 1800’s education, where a child was either homeschooled, sent to a tutor, apprenticed to a trade, or learned his (or her, though not as often) parent’s trade.

So your non sequitur attempt to connect his position to racism baffles me.

I mean, if David Duke and Stormfront support him, he’s got to be good! Come on, who’s with me here? Armbands, anyone?

Irrelevant and ad hominem. Just because his supporters are flawed, doesn’t mean he is. Obama and Hillary have supporters who oppose violent overthrow of governments in order to create leftist regimes. Do bad eggs in UC Berkeley disqualify them from being part of the political discussion?

Help me burn a cross to show my cultural heritage and dedicated opposition to the UN’s global tyranny!

Once again, poisoning the well. Ron Paul does not speak of his cultural heritage in terms of pro-white, ethnocentric terms as you imply here. Please grow up.

Anyway, what I enjoy about both Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich is that they’re markedly conservative and liberal. They’re not playing for votes as most of the Republican and Democrat forerunners are. They’re both well-educated in the implications of their viewpoints.

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mygif

Errrrm… that doesn’t sound so great to me…

(1) Unless you have some other nifty idea to keep infectious diseases from hopping between illegal immigrants and everyone else, I’d really rather that everyone still have access to clinics.

Tighten the borders. Like, rigidly so. Other countries do, as well they should.

(2) Roads are usually paid through gas taxes. Unless illegal immigrants are driving cars powered by fairy dust and moonbeams, they’re also taxpayers when it comes to roads.

Sure. But they’re not contributing to any other system that they use. Which is mainly due, IMO, to the ease of abuse found in our programs. When someone can come over without an ID, SSN or even Passport, walk into a welfare office and essentially get free money, there’s no incentive to contribute to the system. Thus, our systems need to change.

(3) Does he say anything, anywhere about employers? He doesn’t in the essay you’re quoting, at least. From what he’s written, it’d seem he just wants to make sure that illegal immigrants are as desperate and as useful as possible as strikebreakers, without any sanctions at all for employers hiring them. (Note his strong approbation for immigrants who “want to work hard” while simultaneously making it impossible for them to unionize or make legal complaints about ill-treatment.)

Employers are another story. It is obvious that many large corporations make money hand over fist while failing to provide basic health care plans for their employees. Not sure how to fix this, but I think that it is something to be evaluated. As for employers/employees, I think that it should be a non-issue regarding illegals. If you are illegal, you should be deported. Plain and simple. They shouldn’t be working here because they shouldn’t be here.

This isn’t a xenophobia thing either. I just think that laws should be, y’know, laws. If they’re there, they should generally be enforced.

(4) Does he say anything about reforming the legal immigration system? Again, he says nothing about it in the essay you’re quoting. I’d have a lot less sympathy for illegal immigrants if the legal system weren’t FUBARed beyond imagination.

I’ll go with this. The immigration system, like the Welfare, SS and health care systems, needs to be overhauled.

I’m with mightygodking, even if he is just trying to drive up traffic. Granted, Mr. Paul is a huge improvement on the neocons, in roughly the same way that losing a leg is vastly preferable to being incinerated, but I think we can do better still.

Eh, at least the guy says what he believes. I’m tired of bullshit.

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mygif

The best thing about Ron Paul is that he wants to end all government meddling in education and hand educational responsibilty back to the parents ina return to a more innocent time, when we were free of pesky things like “integration” and “civil rights.”

I mean, if David Duke and Stormfront support him, he’s got to be good! Come on, who’s with me here? Armbands, anyone?

Help me burn a cross to show my cultural heritage and dedicated opposition to the UN’s global tyranny!

Jesus CHRIST is it so much to ask that people fucking inform themselves before they make cliched attacks?

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mygif

But they’re not contributing to any other system that they use.

I assume you’re overlooking the massive paycheque contributions that most illegal immigrants pay into Social Security, the majority of whom will never benefit from same.

I think that it should be a non-issue regarding illegals. If you are illegal, you should be deported. Plain and simple. They shouldn’t be working here because they shouldn’t be here.

Before you start down this path, it’s usually worth pointing out that American immigration policy is ridiculously crap, and that the resultant flow of illegal labor is only the market trying to fix obvious imbalances.

Eh, at least the guy says what he believes. I’m tired of bullshit.

Sorry, but the “at least Ron Paul is honest” trope is bull. Anybody who brags about how they never took Medicare dollars out of principle when they practiced medicine when they were an obstetrician is feeding you some premium bullshit, no question.

He’s more honest about his policy positions. Good. He’s a somewhat honest asshole.

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mygif

Which is mainly due, IMO, to the ease of abuse found in our programs. When someone can come over without an ID, SSN or even Passport, walk into a welfare office and essentially get free money, there’s no incentive to contribute to the system.

I can’t let statements like this fly without some citation. Can you please lay out the “free money” process for me?

The handful of people I’ve known who have been/are on welfare are, ironically enough, life-long Republican voters, and the way they explained the process to me didn’t make it sound easy. It’s not the LSAT or anything, but it’s certainly grueling and has extra helpings of shame.

Tighten the borders. Like, rigidly so. Other countries do, as well they should.

As for employers/employees, I think that it should be a non-issue regarding illegals. If you are illegal, you should be deported. Plain and simple. They shouldn’t be working here because they shouldn’t be here.

Ah, well thank god it’s that easy, then.

I’d like to see what Ron Paul’s system is for rounding up twelve million people and marching them back across the border is. I’m sure our FBI, police, courts, and jails have plenty of time and resources to take up this trifling task.

Eh, at least the guy says what he believes. I’m tired of bullshit.

Sorry, you don’t get points for being honest if what you’re being honest about is shit-ass craziness.

Before you start down this path, it’s usually worth pointing out that American immigration policy is ridiculously crap, and that the resultant flow of illegal labor is only the market trying to fix obvious imbalances.

This is something that doesn’t get enough press. NAFTA royally fucked the Mexican economy, and so naturally the working class is heading north to where the work is, so they can do crazy things like feed their fucking kids and have hopes for something resembling a future. As this has been the primary motivation for immigration to America for the past, I don’t know, five centuries or so… I’m not sure why we’re picking now to get so uppity about it. (Why we’re picking now to get so uppity about it again, I should say. Hello, Italians and Irish!)

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mygif

Unless, of course, all that stuff on the Statue of Liberty is just P.R.

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madhouse_city said on November 12th, 2007 at 3:56 am

And despite what many liberal-minded people may think, Illegal immigration is not about race.

Well of course! Illegal immigration is about a small group of people with a large amount of money being able to turn over as much a profit as they can by exploiting an underclass of hard laborers. This is a grand American tradition, stretching back to when citizens in Southern states fed, clothed, and sheltered immigrants from Africa in exchange for cotton picking and various other help around the plantation. Too bad that goddamn Lincoln had to screw things up–just imagine how strong the American economy would be today if we had free labor! Why, even the Chinese wouldn’t be able to compete. Thank goodness those brave companies giving illegal immigrants an incentive to be here are trying to turn back the clock, and thank goodness Ron Paul would never, ever do anything to stem those companies. Nah, he goes for the easy target–and why not? If there’s one thing that drives conservatives, one thing that they need right along with food, air, and water, it is having some Other to fight against. Blacks, liberals, non-defense government workers, Hollywood, unions, communists, professors, students, non-Christains, Muslims, and/or illegal immigrants: as long as it’s a group of clearly (if never honestly) defined Different Folks that they conservatives can strike against, that group will do.

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mygif

OK, I won’t attack Ron Paul on his crazy crazy or the quality of right-wing paranoids that he attracts.

How about I just point out his congressional record?  Specifically, let’s take a look at bills he has sponsored or co-sponsored.

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mygif

madhouse, you’re obviously trying very hard to try and bludgeon me with the sarcasm of your post, but your argument only holds water when you are only focusing on those non-educated illegal immigrants who come from Latin America. The whole point of my post is that is not the case and not every illegal immigrant comes here without a college degree. I once knew of a couple of illegals who were college educated, who hailed from Europe (and no, not from Spain).

The intent of your post (minus the sarcasm) is correct though, the Republicans wont be hard on the illegal immigration because the majority of the illegals are a cheap source of labor (and Whorporate America pays out more to the re-election fund than Joe Redneck on the Texas border). However, the other side is, as long as the liberals, especially the anarchic liberals in California, want to feel bad for the impoverished Latin Americans, then the Democrats wont do anything to disenfranchise their voters either.

It would be a really simple problem to solve if most people weren’t economically parasitic or just too damn stupid.

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mygif

It would be a really simple problem to solve if most people weren’t economically parasitic or just too damn stupid.

And that simple solution would be what? I guess I’m just too damn stupidly parasitic and so am missing it…

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mygif

then the Democrats wont do anything to disenfranchise their voters either.

Yeah, that whole “serve the interests of the public” tendency is weird, isn’t it? It’s almost as if we live in some kind of democracy.

But I guess that answers my question: what’s etched onto the Statue of Liberty IS just P.R. We should replace it with something more fitting, like “I’ve already got mine, so the rest of you can fuck off.”

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mygif

As ironically both a native american and a legal immigrant, I find the illegal immigration zealotry to be pretty…ironic would be the best sort of word, hypotritical would be another.

I can say from personal experience that the US immigration system is completely screwed. Quota’s need to go right damn now for instance.

As for Ron Paul, he is a sort of Ross Pero-esque character. Someone who seems comically absurd but incredibly earnest. To quote Dennis Miller, “Steer towards the sun you Tolkien character with a gold card.”
On some level, I find his forth rightness endearing but I wouldn’t give him control of anything important and I sure as hell wouldn’t vote for him.

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mygif

On some level, I find his forth rightness endearing but I wouldn’t give him control of anything important and I sure as hell wouldn’t vote for him.

Word. I don’t care how “honest” the guy is; I guess it’s an admirable trait, but that doesn’t mean I want the guy anywhere fucking near the Oval Office.

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