A younger friend of mine saw this and inquired as to what Tombstone was. I naturally had to beat him with a shovel.
Excellent. (And oh, Powers Boothe. Both here and in “Deadwood,” how glorious is your scenery-chewing evil.)
In “Halo: Reach,” there’s a rotating set of daily and weekly challenges. One of them is called “Be Their Huckleberry,” and requires that you get so many kills using the pistol.
You really should have a tag for these. They’re fantastic.
Well, that’s a simple question: Tombstone is a rather awful movie that has gained an inexplicable second life as a popular cult object.
>Ducks the thrown shoes.<
You know that was Val Kilmer’s best performance, right? Seriously, how are you going to hate Tombstone?
>throws an entire shoe store at Tim O’Neil<
Heh; fun movie. Kinda preferred Kevin Costner’s “is he incapable of emotion?” interpretation of the man.
At Neutral Evil, you really could have just put “Well, bye.”
Seriously, why hate on the Tombstone? KenB3 is dead on about Kilmer, and I’d add that Michael Biehn’s Johnny Ringo is awesome. It’s like Evil Hicks!
Oh, and this explains why I kind of wish I could be Doc, but would probably be more like Virgil in real life — same as most of my D&D characters.
@salmo: There already is a tag for these. “D&D Explains Everything”.
Hey, am I the only one who’s surprised he hasn’t done a “Community” one yet? Especially after the future classic D & D episode from last week.
Your friend had that beating coming.
LE: The Dean
As someone born a year before this movie came out, it kind of failed to register on my radar. Having just watched it today however I must echo every sentiment in the comments in so far as this movie is awesome and one of the best westerns I’ve seen.
How did I miss that? Oh, and Clay, you’re a flippin’ genius. Now we need quotes. For the dean, I recommend “Racial profiling may not be right, but it can be economical.”, and for Chang, “I did what any man would do. I faked my way into a job teaching Spanish at a community college using phrases from Sesame Street.”
I know very little about Tombstone; is there a reason that 7 men have between them only three distinct moustaches?
Chris K: It’s because that’s how people rolled back then.
Is it just me, or does ‘Tombstone’ have one of the coolest casts ever?
There needs to be a way to get Billy Zane on there.
I hereby enter my official request for an Firefly/Serenity AC.
AJ, that is no lie: it is an awesome cast.
And I second the Firefly/Serenity request, although I am not sure if there are three evil characters. Saffron, The Agent, and maybe Jayne, I guess. Oh, and then there is Jubal Early so I guess there are three or more to choose from.
Not to knock Tombstone (and the chart is spot on), but has no one in this thread seen Real Genius?
@Tom, I think there’s a pretty clear case for Jayne’s Neutral Evilness. He wants Sex, comfort, and money (pretty much in that order), and doesn’t much care how he gets his needs fulfilled (see the Neutral Evil discussion in the Mad Men Chart). His loyality seems based on increasing his chances for survival, and even then he’s willing to turn on folks when push meets shove.
John…I wouldn’t say Real Genius is Val Kilmer’s best performance….most awesome performance maybe, but not “best”.
I hate Real Genius. I know people who love the movie, but Val just rubs me the wrong way. Just not a fan of the movie at all.
As for Jayne being Neutral Evil, those are valid arguments. He just seems to have moments where he displays elements of good (i.e. he cares about what the crew thinks of him; when Mal is going to space him he asks, “Don’t tell the others” in reference to his attempted betrayal of Doc and River), and in the finale of Serenity where he decides to go on Mal’s big final hellride. He just seems to exhibit admirable traits at times when he should just cut and run. That is not to say that I do not recognize the times he had displayed greed and selfishness. Jaynestown (I think that’s the episode’s title) is based on him screwing over an old business partner, and in the pilot he was going to sell out the crew, and he did attempt to sell Doc and River to the Alliance. Perhaps he stared out evil and over the period of the series switched to neutral or good?
John 2.0 for the Firefly/Serenity one someone needs to settle a bet for me what does the Operative qualify as- Its caused an argument because it raises the question of which part you place the emphasis on for Lawful: Alignment- he commits evil in order to achieve a lawful end rather than the classic “is evil under the guise of the law” conception of Lawful Evil- so where does he fit- especially after the whole wannabe Moses “I won’t be in my perfect future” bit where he talks about not deserving to be there (which splits him from the classic zealot bit where they commit atrocities in the name of good and its all cool due to it). Hell now I really want to see that alliance chart. Honestly as a short series it should be easier than it is given that characters shouldn’t have as much growth as they apparently do. My try:
CG: later series and Jayne
LN: ? Perhaps Preacher but I don’t really like it
TN: River (one could go with the culpability argument here post Serenity and put the Reavers if one wanted to start an argument about alignment mechanics)
CN: Jayne (pure Id)
LE: Operative (depending on my argument), The Alliance (as we see them for the most part)
CE: Reavers (pre-Serenity one of the more pure embodiments of this concept in popular culture)
Oh, and while I agree with almost all of Clay’s community alignments I question Annie and Jeff’s – Annie because seriously she’s good but girl is nuts like half the time and not goofy Troy nuts but like kind of creepy nuts, and Jeff because other than the Lawyer bit I don’t know if you can even define him as lawful- I could be wrong though, he only seems to utilize rules/law to exploit it.
Annie is genuinely a good and caring person, but she swings wildly between wanting her life all planned out and regimented, and rebelling against her self-imposed order. It is this back and forth between order and chaos that landed her in Neutral territory.
(The only time I recall her going nuts was when she lost her pen, which I understand — pens are important.)
I admit I was going back and forth as to whether Jeff was NG or TN. I almost switched him with Abed — who, after all, has a clearly defined code of behavior. But yeah, the lawyer thing tipped the scale. Plus, I thought he should be across the grid from Britta. They counter-balance each other.
Besides, if exploiting rules for one’s personal benefit isn’t LN, I don’t know what is. (Or, as Futurama* put it, Jeff is always technically correct — the best kind of correct.)
And while Abed’s set of laws are clear to him, to the outside observer, his behavior may seem lawful one minute, chaotic the next. So, TN.
I don’t remember enough quotes to complete the chart, but maybe we could open source it…?
*Hey, where’s the Futurama alignment chart?!? Not enough Good people?
@SS, I don’t want to hijack the thread too much, but I can’t see the Operative as anything other than Lawful Evil. He commits evil acts as a arm of legal authority. I don’t think this messianic ‘I won’t live in my perfect world’ bit changes that one bit.
(that said, I think you can have two distinct charts for the series Firefly and the movie Serenity. Without the context of the show, I think Jayne’s and Book’s characters plays differently in the movie.
So for what it’s worth, for Firefly:
LG: Book [this on changes in the movie to NG, I think]
NG: Simon [motivated only by familiar love]
NG: Wash [I think Zoe fits here too, but not as well]
TN: Badger [Businessman, Roots in the community, possibly Inara, if you just want cast members]
In Serenity, I think Mr. Universe is TN, The Operative is LE, and the Reavers are CE)
By the way, this post needs the D&D tag:
FWIW a Community alignment chart has already been done…
The choices are good on that chart, though I think Jeff and the Dean should switch. The quotes, they chose, however, are awful. Most of them don’t even really fit the character, let alone represent the alignment.
Listen, I love Firefly as much as the next nerd, but nary a one of them characters has a moustache the likes of Sam Elliott. Can we all just have a moment of respectful silence for that magnificent facial hair?
I propose that the birthday of Sam Elliot’s mustache be declared a national holiday.
I think what I love best about westerns like this is how the moustaches massively toned down from what they historically would have been, because modern society just doesn’t know how to handle that much moustache.
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