The logic in my head went thusly:
1. Edward Norton was utterly wasted in ‘The Incredible Hulk’, a movie about a man with a split personality who was destructive and at odds with his ‘primary’ self.
2. Prior to that, Norton was probably best known for ‘Fight Club’, a movie about a man with a split personality who was destructive and who (came to be) at odds with his primary self.
3. Previous Hulk stories have featured the Hulk at varying levels of intelligence. You could, without betraying the source material, write a Hulk who was as eloquent and charismatic as Tyler Durden. And the potential for stunt-casting with Brad Pitt would be too hard to pass up. In some alternate universe, we got a version of ‘The Incredible Hulk’ written as a superhero homage to ‘Fight Club’.
4. When writing dialogue from this alternate Hulk movie, it’s worth remembering that Hulk dialogue is always funnier when written in Roy Thomas’ green Hulk argot.
As such…
“First Rule of Hulk Club: Hulk not talk about Hulk Club.”
“Second Rule of Hulk Club: HULK NOT TALK ABOUT HULK CLUB! RRRAAAARRRRGGGGH!”
“Third Rule of Hulk Club: When puny human say ‘stop’, go limp, tap out, Hulk stop smashing them.”
“Fourth Rule of Hulk Club: It not fair to gang up on Hulk.”
“Fifth Rule of Hulk Club: Hulk will smash you when Hulk finished smashing other puny human.”
“Sixth Rule of Hulk Club: No shirts. No shoes. Only purple pants.”
“Seventh Rule of Hulk Club: Hulk will smash as long as Hulk has to smash.”
“And Eighth Rule of Hulk Club: If this your first night at Hulk Club…you must SMASH!”
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Peter David’s smart green Hulk was basically kind of like Tyler Durden already, even down to the whole “leading a revolutionary cell to try to improve the world through acts of targeted violence” bit.
See, this was where my mind went when the movie first came out.
“People keep asking me if I know the Incredible Hulk.”
“Hulk look like puny Banner want to look. Hulk dress like puny Banner want to dress. Hulk fuck like puny Banner want to fuck.”
Though I’m going to disagree about Norton being ‘wasted’ in that movie. Ruffalo’s Banner is the man who’s found his point of calm, his balance in the middle of so much chaos. Norton’s Banner is damaged, a man who has had his world just completely torn apart and is only now learning to be equipped for the new life he has to lead. I thought he was amazing in the role.
Norton’s Hulk set up Ruff’s perfectly.
Is Norton’s Hulk a canon part of the Marvel cinematic universe? I mean, is Norton’s Hulk the same Hulk that smashes Loki in The Avengers?
Well, they use footage from Norton’s Hulk in the Avengers, so… yes?
AMS: Yes. And Bana’s Ang Lee Hulk is canonically Edward Norton’s Hulk.
John: is it? My understanding was that Norton’s Hulk could be Bana’s Hulk – there’s nothing in the text to directly contradict it, but also nothing in the text that explicitly says they’re the same character.
I guess I had forgotten about that, malakim2099.
John, I know it isn’t a totally reliable source, but Wikipedia lists “The Incredible Hulk” as part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but doesn’t include “Hulk.”
The Incredible Hulk’s version of how Banner became dosed with gamma radiation doesn’t quite mesh with Ang Lee’s film, but if you squint you can kind of fit them together. Ang Lee’s movie predates the Grand Unified Marvel Master plan, however. The Incredible Hulk, on the other hand, is explicitly part of the larger Marvel cinematic universe, which is why RDJ shows up for a cameo.
Hulk ends in the same place as The Incredible Hulk begins location wise and character wise. TIH is a loose reboot, but it connects to Hulk reasonably well, minus the new opening.
Thunderbolt Ross had bitch tits.
@Travesty: I thought he was excellent too; the “utterly wasted” refers to how the script and direction decided that because Ang Lee’s Hulk took a lot of chances and did a lot of unexpected things and was a critical failure, they should take as few chances as possible and play it utterly safe. I felt like the direction played down not just the subtext of the story, but the idea that there could be a subtext to the story. It was almost like they were saying, “Oh, yes, we agree with you that making the Hulk a metaphor for child abuse was pretentious! Here, the Hulk isn’t a metaphor for anything at all! Utterly literal, that’s us!”
(And to pre-emptively clarify, I’m not saying I do think the Ang Lee Hulk was pretentious. I didn’t like the visual gimmicks, I thought they were distracting, but I didn’t at all think it was pretentious.)
Norton should have directed as well as starred. At the very least, I’d like to see a cut he assembled from the existing footage.
Ang Lee’s HULK is probably the single most influential Marvel movie to date, in that it has served as an abject lesson for every studio about how NOT to do a superhero movie. Regardless of the film’s actual quality, it was perceived as a bomb, and every decision Marvel (and Fox and Sony) have made since the film’s release has been inspired by their desire to never again take a single risk with an A-list property.
@John I’m not sure I hundred percent agree with your detective work, there. I mean, yes, they backed away from the child abuse angle but I think they still hit rather hard at the psychology of the Hulk.
I mean, there’s that seen where Betty is trying to talk to Bruce about the Hulk. She’s describing her experience with him, saying that she felt some sense of recognition, and Bruce is just straight-up shutting her down. He won’t talk about it, he won’t face it. He doesn’t want to integrate it or accept anything it represents, he wants it gone. I thought that was really quite powerful, especially with Ruffalo’s Hulk in the Avengers to show us the progression of the character.
Hell, the only part I liked about Hulk was the visual gimmicks.
What if a Hulk movie wasn’t a homage to Fight Club, but Fight Club was in fact a Hulk movie from the start?
“Jack” is Bruce Banner and Tyler is Hulk at his most frighteningly refined, indistinguishable from Banner in everything but his behavior, highly intelligent, patient, charming, manipulative, creative, inspiring and ultimately seeking destruction on a massive scale.
He tells Banner he wants to set Banner free, but that’s a lie; and at that point he’s already set events in motion to end the world as we know it even though Banner regains control.