So the Modesty Survey is starting to make its way around the internet, and for me this is a totally alien subculture. I mean, I was raised Catholic, but being raised Catholic in Toronto is not exactly the strictest form of Christian upbringing, to say the least; the only thing you’re guaranteed to have is a relatively worldly guilt complex and an appreciation of fish on Fridays. Compared to that, this is… really, really weird.
58 percent of them (and bear in mind the “Christian boys” range from 16 to 35, which is pushing it at the upper end, but whatevs) say that a skirt that falls above the knee is immodest! “That’s getting into dangerous territory, especially when they sit down, since it slides up even further.” DANGEROUS TERRITORY! Needless to say, 93 percent have a problem with miniskirts. 84 percent say that a bikini is immodest. “If you understood the purpose of publications like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue…”1 62 percent aren’t even satisfied if girls wear a tankini instead; 55 percent can’t even handle a one-piece halter-top suit. A thirteen-year-old writes: “They tend to show cleavage and your back is too much of a distraction.”2
66 percent say that a shirt with a “lacy, lingerie look” is immodest. 62 percent worry about girls who wear a transparent shirt over a tank top. 76 percent say that “even an inch” of skin between pants and bottom of shirt is a “stumbling block.” 65 percent have a problem with girls who have to adjust a bra strap in public. 56 percent have a problem with halter-top bras, which is probably the same people who complained about halter-top swimsuits. “This sounds stupid, but I’ll be honest: The strings invite a tug.” You heard that guy, ladies! You shouldn’t wear a halter-top lest he be tempted to assault you!3
But hey, it’s not just clothes the Christian boys are concerned with. 75 percent say that “the way a girl walks” can be a stumbling block. 57 percent are worried about when girls stretch their arms because their chests stick out. 63 percent get tense when a girl bends over and exposes her lower back. 61 percent feel sinful when a girl bends over with her ass towards them, and 76 percent can’t handle breasts bobbling up and down when a girl walks or runs.
Really, I know one should feel contempt for the overt misogyny on display here, but really I can’t be bothered to feel anything other than pity. These “Christian boys”4 are just so goddamn pathetic, a scream in the night of “I am powerless over my dick”:
Sisters in Christ, you really have no concept of the struggles that guys face on a daily basis. Please, please, please take a higher standard in the ways you dress. True, we men are responsible for our thoughts and actions before the Lord, but it is such a blessing when we know that we can spend time with our sisters in Christ, enjoying their fellowship without having to constantly be on guard against ungodly thoughts brought about by the inappropriate ways they sometimes dress.
This sentiment is of course the prevailing one. Sometimes it gets justified in weird ways.
A girl has been given something for which she is responsible. That gift is a beautiful body and mystique which has power over a man, and so in being responsible with that gift, a girl must give thought to men. This is just like how men have been given bodies with a different power – physical strength. A man is responsible for that strength and must not abuse it or be careless with it – be that in the context of other men and children, or with women.
“See, men are big and strong, and we shouldn’t hit people. And women aren’t big and strong, but they are pretty, so they shouldn’t hit people metaphorically with their choice of clothing.”
In fairness, when asked what their responsibility is, most of the Christian boys say straight up that it’s first and foremost their job to treat women respectfully and not lust in their hearts and do all the things they believe God wants them to do. But that adult sentiment is choked off when you read their scorn for women who “flaunt their bodies”:
Yes, you can turn me on, but don’t expect me to respect you. Yes, I might find you attractive on the outside, but that won’t make me think of you as attractive on the inside. Sure you might get my attention, but it will be negative attention.
Given that we’ve established that a simple bikini or an inch of skin between shirt and pant gets “negative attention,” this guy needs his head adjusted. What really gets to me is that these dipshits put everything in their own context. A girl wearing revealing clothing doesn’t get respect because of how she makes the guy feel. These guys keep talking about how they want girls of substance and then demand that “substance” cannot wear sexy clothes; they complain about how hard it is for them not to sin and then request that girls self-police their clothing and behaviour as if the two required equivalent effort.
It’s just sad.
- Wait, do people actually still whack it to the Swimsuit Issue? I mean, seriously, porn is so easy to get now. What’s the point of the Swimsuit Issue? Or maybe we’re dealing with people here for whom the Swimsuit Issue is as close as they ever get to porn? Not that they don’t have access to porn, but that the Swimsuit Issue is the most they can conceive of porn actually being? Like, they look at the cover of a Vivid Video flick and think “I bet that sinful video has simply TONS of girls in swimsuits lounging around.” [↩]
- I suppose we should applaud that thirteen-year-old for being able to appreciate the beauty of a woman’s back at such a young age. When I was thirteen, I think I would have preferred it if girls were made entirely of tits. Like, foot-to-head. All tits. [↩]
- TUG TUG TUG! [↩]
- Up to age 35! Forever young! [↩]
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I wonder if women eating a lollipop in public is considered immodest, or if it’s only immodest if Van Halen is playing in the background.
Those people are seriously fucked up.
If it is 16-35, then how was there a 13 year old responding? This young man is lying!
There are some very peculiar people out there, it would seem.
I like this article, because it’s a window onto a world I have absolutely no knowledge of. I have never met anyone like this in my entire life.
So…what I’m taking from this is that women should be clad from head-to-toe and move around in rolling steel frames that prevent all jiggling and hip-swaying and so on.
…yeah, screw you kids. You started noticing girls. It’s called being a teenager. It’s your responsibility to deal with your own damn hormones.
I do believe this calls for these people to watch “Every Thing You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)”
I remember watching at an incredibly inappropriate age, and I grew up just fine.
A thought occurs to me.
1) Men are incapable of controlling their lusts, and the objects of their lusts must be modest to respect that.
2) ‘Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner’. The sin isn’t in having homosexual urges, but in acting on them.
Thus, all good Christian Boys must dress and act modestly, never doing anything that might portray them in an attractive light, least they lead to homosexuals commiting sin through their inspiration of lusts with their evil sinful bodies.
masculinity is dead
I sure do think you’re a big man for making fun of a 13 year old that has been brought up to believe some stupid shit though…
I feel bad for these kinds of guys, so pressured to not appreciate feminine form. I can’t even imagine seeing a good looking, leggy woman in a short skirt walking with her hips swaying and feeling bad for liking it.
I feel almost as bad for the women these guys might one day marry. It’s one thing to wait until you’re married to have sex. It’s another thing to wait until you’re married to think about it.
Why don’t these guys just be honest and admit they want women to wear burqas?
Interesting to note that 43% of the respondents to this poll were home-schooled.
1. I will henceforth be using the term “stumbling block” to mean “mental image suitable for inspiring a bout of self gratification.”
2. Religion is very strange. Who has a problem with miniskirts, but not bikinis?
What’s so strange about a bunch of guys fantasizing girls spend twenty-four hours out of the day worried about them?
As for that thirteen-year-old… he’s got eyes. He’ll go far. Observant religious teens make the best middle-aged erotic authors. It’s like a wine.
I dunno…. not a Christian, not religious, but it is pretty horrible when you’re young and that flooded with hormones
Brimstone, it’s fine for them to be flooded with hormones, but not fine for them to put all the burden of those hormones on women/girls to dress and act modestly.
I mean, sorry, but boobs are going to jiggle when you have to run. You have to stretch your arms sometimes to reach something. Women shouldn’t have to spend their lives worrying that it’ll tempt some guy into doing something inappropriate.
So wait, women’s bodies are alluring to men, but men’s bodies aren’t alluring to women?
Honey, I don’t know where you’re getting your data, but you seriously need to recheck it.
I was Catholic and I got like this a little, where I was aroused by women but felt guilty about it. Fortunately my dad, despite being very Catholic and to the right of Bill O’Reilly, never had a problem telling a 12 year old to “check out the knockers on her!” So that balanced out the Catholic teaching some.
Oh balls, I have scarcely ever seen anything so thoroughly awash in the language of Evangelical American culture. I had a lot of good old fashioned Catholic Guilt plugged into me as a kid, but you haven’t seen anything until you’ve spent any significant amount of time in the American South of the Mid-West. As an example:
I once briefly dated a girl who was raised Southern Baptist. She always dressed very modestly, almost to the point of appearing frumpy, and I could never quite figure out why. On a visit to her apartment, she was showing me around and I noticed that she had this closet full of really lovely things that still had the tags on them. I asked why she had never worn them and she said that they made her look “too pretty.” I tried to laugh it off and told her that was ridiculous, asking her to try wearing some of the items out to dinner that night. It took some doing, but eventually she went and changed, and about halfway through the meal I told her how nice she looked…
She broke down crying in the restaurant and started calling herself a whore. She kept it up all of the way back to her apartment. When I got her back, she apologized profusely, and I told her that she hadn’t done any damage, and I was sorry for pressuring her into wearing something she was uncomfortable with. Three hours later and I got a phone call from her father, who I had never met. I guess she called her folks upset and they pried my number out of her. The man swore at me like a frigging sailor for five minutes, accused me of being a messenger of the devil who had tried to tempt his daughter into sin with harlot’s clothes, and told me that if I ever so much as spoke to her again then GOD HIMSELF WOULD SMITE ME.
Jesus. Christ. On. A. Bicycle.
American Evangelism is – aside from Calvinism – probably one of the most dehumanizing form of Christianity. This is only the tip of the iceberg, sadly.
“61 percent feel sinful when a girl bends over with her ass towards them”
Only 61%? As an enthusiastically-heterosexual and happily-married Catholic, I can tell you I nearly always feel “sinful” when a young woman bends over with her ass towards me. It’s that nice kind of sinful that reminds you that the same God that created the devil to tempt you is a loving God and lets the devil tempt you pleasantly.
Anyhow, many of the folks here are ignoring the sentiment that it is the boy’s acknowledged responsibility to manage his own thoughts and actions. The request for women to dress more modestly, though foolish, is just a request to make the internal spiritual struggle a little easier.
“Wait, do people actually still whack it to the Swimsuit Issue? I mean, seriously, porn is so easy to get now. What’s the point of the Swimsuit Issue?”
Well, I think if easy porn had made all masturbatory fodder obsolete, that would be like if microwaveable food made all fresh ingredients redundant. (There’s a very good chance guys who eat nothing but hot pockets and do nothing for kicks but surf porn are barely analogies of each other)
To be honest, I actually very rarely surf the net for porn for two reasons. 1) The sites are very ugly and usually not very safe for the hard drive, and 2) The “white noise” factor. Men may be base creatures, but even then, having some kind of foundation of personality can be good. As many men have probably fapped to Jenna Fischer as Tiffany Fallon. Of course, one doesn’t tend to equate “SI Supermodel” with “Personality”, but should a Bar Rafeli break out, she’ll at least rate higher on the algorithm than some heavily made up Camgirl.
I’ve seen a lot of this sort of thinking, being raised as a Christian. I’ve come to call it “precious moments syndrome”, as eventually it results in a home devoid of any decoration aside from crosses and precious moments figurines.
It mostly comes from scared older generations who cannot bring themselves to trust their children not to be swept away by “worldliness”. It’s the idiocy that leads to homeschooling and an incredibly sheltered life, followed by a massive (and very predictable) rebellion in the later teen years.
It’s not the normal hormonal urges these boys are fighting (yes, up to 35 years old, still very much boys), it’s a painful lack of socialization and social skills. It could almost be described as parent-inflicted Asperger’s.
The really terrifying this for me about this survey is the way the reasoning of the respondents mirrors the reasoning of the men who are arrested in Muslim countries for acid attacks on women who reject them. The same objectification and misogyny is present and active in both cases, and it disgusts me to see it coming from people who claim to follow my God.
They should move to the middle east.
I’ve lived my entire life surrounded by Evangelical Fundamentalists. I know the culture very well, and I think I have a pretty good understanding of how they view things. But even to me this survey sounds very strange. Most of the Christian boys I grew up with are fully in favour of girls wearing skimpy outfits, or at least they claim to be when they’re hanging around with their friends after school (or in school, actually– sometimes they would even talk about it in class). And many (but by no means all) of the Christian girls are perfectly comfortable running around in short skirts and halter tops.
But yeah, there has always been this minority who take the sermons very seriously, and who seem deathly afraid of epressing any sort of sexual feeling in any way.
How was this survey conducted? I assumed that it was an internet survey, and thus anonymous, which is very scary because that would indicate fairly accurate answers. A lot of boys (and girls) would lie on a survey like this if they were talking to an adult or someone from a church group.
I assume there is a self-selection bias. Was this survey conducted on extremely hard-core religious websites? That would skew the sample quite a bit. The broader, more popular types of websites (even if still religious in nature) might give different results. Or maybe not.
I admit I have no connection with the home-school crowd. We never had any in the small town I live in. Nor do I have any experience with the Apostolics and Holiness people I’ve seen in some nearby towns, who wear black pants and white long-sleeve shirts at all times on the boys, and ankle-length grey dresses for the girls, with white scarves covering their hair. Maybe that’s the sort of kid who answered this survey.
I grew up in a culture very much like this – Mormon instead of Evangelist, but the emphasis on Modesty is the same, so none of this really surprises me to hear. A lot of it is the brand of rhetoric I’m familiar with, especially the stuff about the body being a “wonderful gift” (a “temple”, even) that must be taken care of. I think accusing these people of wanting girls to wear Burqas isn’t really fair, because on one hand I don’t think anyone on that camp is for going so far as covering pretty faces, and on the other hand that’s giving too much credit to the idea that a good chunk of Christians would be able to mentally differentiate Burqas from Islam.
Wow, do they keep those boys ( and men ) in cages? How do you still grow up like this in western civilization?
I’ve seen it mentioned in a few posts above and I don’t think the comparison to Catholic Guilt is astute. Catholic morality has, at its heart, that two beliefs that a) you are inevitably a bad person but b) God loves you anyway. So while this can leave you neurotic, it at least has the caveats that it’s not the end of the world if you screw up because you ARE a screw-up merely by being human and God is essentially on your side (even if you keep spitting his face, screw-up). You can accuse Catholics of mourning God’s love, but at least that acknowledge human nature.
Some of this Evangelical Guilt, though… it’s a whole different beast. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems to be founded on the principles that a.)God made you perfect and wonderful and b.)that’s why he’s waiting in the bushes to find an excuse to send you to Hell. If the sin is on somebody else, then you’re in the clear, because God is a mean-spirited rules-stickler.
NCallahan: I love that summary of beliefs. What makes it truly terrible is that the “Evangelical” viewpoint is one that any evangelical would recognize as heresy if it were stated explicitly, and yet it still manages to be implicit in a lot of the culture.
As for the survey, as a girl growing up in this culture, I saw these things frequently and deeply appreciated knowing what “tempts” a guy. Still not sure whether I used that information more to dress modestly or to figure out which assets to emphasize…
Speaking as an Orthodox Jew who adheres to standards of modesty that are superficially pretty similar to what I’m seeing on this survey – this still makes me really, really angry. To me, modesty is about understanding that physical appearance is not one’s foremost asset. I HATE: 1. the nitpicky questions like “Is a v-neck top a stumbling block [ARGH] even if it is not revealing?” 2. the idea that boys’ answers should be what dictates girls’ behavior. (I have the same problem with Jewish laws of modesty – the fact that they were set by the then-all male rabbinic establishment.) Blaming girls for boys’ sins is bad enough, but letting boys dictate the rules of girls’ behavior is just scary.
Autumn: “So…what I’m taking from this is that women should be clad from head-to-toe and move around in rolling steel frames that prevent all jiggling and hip-swaying and so on.”
Or to make it easier the women could just be fully clad from head to toe in some kind of draped fabric – perhaps with only their eyes showing. You know, so you only see a lump of cloth moving around and don’t see the jiggling and the swaying. I’m sure there’s a name for a garment like that …
I suddenly wish I had the whole Quantum & Woody “nipplege” scene in handy jpg format.
Is this the thread where people point and laugh at other subcultures for having certain sets of beliefs that aren’t the same as theirs? I was afraid I missed it.
“When I was thirteen, I think I would have preferred it if girls were made entirely of tits. Like, foot-to-head. All tits.”
This is a horrifying mental image that will require trepanning to remove. Thank you.
No Rawr, you’re thinking of thread with the anarchist.
“Is this the thread where people point and laugh at other subcultures for having certain sets of beliefs that aren’t the same as theirs? I was afraid I missed it.”
So you’re either a cultural relativist or a Christian with a hilarious inability to recognize the irony of your comment? I can’t decide which is better.
No, Rawrasaur, this is the thread where we make fun of members of another subculture for having a variety of beliefs that are logically indefensible.
I grew up Evangelical Christian and homeschooled, and it’s not a homogenized culture. Some homeschoolers who are fundamentalist Christians are like this, some aren’t. (Also, old meme.)
The more conservative homeschooled kids that I knew turned out pretty weird. I wonder what they’re like now, in their twenties.
I was like those poor boys when I was younger. I like to think I’ve become a more well-adjusted adult, but I still have a deep-rooted guilt complex.
The problem seems to be that it is difficult to explain to young boys the difference between feeling temptation (which is normal and in most cases a sign of good health) vs. acting on those urges either physically or mentally. It is easier to tell them that any tempataion is wrong and to be avoided just as those who present temptation to you.
Why educate people on self control and respecting others when you can just demonize boobies and everyone who has them.
Boobies aren’t evil! (except these ones in this book I once read…)
This has to be a scam, like “Conservapedia”: 25% serious survey takers and 75% wiseass Internet commentators.
That last quote sounds like it’s from a serial killer.
This is the type of shit that leads a high school administration (a PUBLIC high school, mind you) to strongly “advise” the art teacher (me) against showing the students any slides of artwork portraying nudes.
Now, I do believe it is entirely possible, perhaps even prudent given the differing levels of maturity among high schoolers, to present a high school-level art lecture without showing any nudes, but the fact that the rule was in place at all pissed me off, ’cause you just know it was due to some parent flying off the handle years prior.
Also, on the survey’s topic of girls wearing skirts versus jeans:
While it may be true that a skirt is more modest than a pair of jeans, a skirt will provide far easier access to the goodies located within.
Fantomex: Are you saying that all christians are alike or something? I wasn’t sure. Secondly, what’s wrong with a view of ‘live and let live’? Nowhere are they advocating or requiring other people to do things, they are expressing their opinions through the survey. It sounds like you’ve just got a general grudge against christianity.
Thomas Wilde: I look at it more like ‘these many people people don’t feel comfortable with this sort of thing’. I don’t feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?
–Rawr
Actually, growing up as a Catholic in a largely Southern Baptist and Church of Christ culture, where Catholic made up only 3% of the largely Christian population, I have to say that the differences are sharper than many think – to the extent that my fellow Christians often asked me if I had decided to stop my idolatrous ways and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior….uhhhh, yeah.
But, what makes me nervous about this survey and its responses (I am going to run under the supposition that they are legitimate) is that I have listened to many a friend who has been raped or sexually assaulted using this same sort of rhetoric and these “rules” to somehow make what happened to them their own fault. And so, this truly horrendous act of physical violation gets apologized by the victim under the assumptions that: “well, if I hadn’t provoked him with my tank top or short skirt, then this wouldn’t have happened. I really am a whore.”
So, Rawr, you need to be careful because “live and let live” sometime leads to one excusing some truly reprehensible behavior. It’s one thing to want to dress more modestly (for religious reasons or otherwise), but it’s entirely another for one gender to set rules on the behavior, clothing, etc. on another because, without them, they seemingly cannot control their actions and blame for that is wrongly placed on the victim. And the underlying message of this survey not “live and let live” for women – it’s “these whores better stop tempting us because Jesus can only do so much to stop our ‘baser urges.’ I mean, we want to respect you, but if you don’t stop dressing like whores by showing even an INCH of skin or breathing, then we just won’t be able to control ourselves. Amen.”
@Rawrasaur: I see your point, but I still object to this attempt at exact statistical measurement of what is/isn’t modest.
If you value modesty, teach kids to respect themselves and focus on things other than their body. And sure, have a dress code, put your money where your mouth is. But to make girls feel uncomfortable for every little thing – for stretching, or running – is unfair and sick. If they understand the value of being modest, they’ll act accordingly, whether or not their behavior is scientifically defined as “modest”.
Also, MGK – if you think bikinis are modest, I’d like to see what kind of clothing you’d define as “immodest”.
At the risk of being the kind of person who links to XKCD, I feel I should bring up both this and this.
I think I’ve heard the “this kind of thinking leads to that kind of behavior” statements before. Isn’t that the same principle behind the government movements to ban violent video games and movies?
–Rawr
“Are you saying that all christians are alike or something? I wasn’t sure. Secondly, what’s wrong with a view of ‘live and let live’? Nowhere are they advocating or requiring other people to do things, they are expressing their opinions through the survey. It sounds like you’ve just got a general grudge against christianity.”
They’re not entirely the same, no. That’s ridiculous. They’re alike in the whole ‘believing in an idiotic myth and basing their sense of ethics on obedience’, though.
Not advocating? Oh yes, of course, silly me, the religious never apply their ludicrous standards to nonbelievers. Even if they did, beliefs have absolutely no influence on people’s decision making or affect what laws are passed. Clearly I am in the wrong for expressing any sentiment other than fawning admiration towards socially regressive beliefs.
I’m slightly curious how the two sentences I wrote is sufficient basis for your accusation that I have a “grudge”. It’s almost as if it isn’t, and you simply interpret any form of disagreement as being caused by personal bias. See, that’s an unfair generalization; now we’ve both made one.
This isn’t the thread where we mock a subculture’s beliefs. This is the thread where we see why girls are still being molested, because this kind of buck-passing and refusal to own one’s own responses are still alive and well.
I couldn’t help feeling the same way. This survey is either incredibly illuminating – highlighting a faction of Americans who have been completely submerged in Evangelical dogma – or a very deliberate piece of propaganda aimed at both boys and girls to peer pressure them into submitting to Evangelical dogma.
Personally, I’m predisposed to the latter. We saw this kind of propaganda in the run up to the Iraq War, we saw it in the 2000 election recount where the coverage would make you completely forget exactly who won the popular vote, we’ve seen it in the abortion debate, we’ve seen it in the Shirley Sherrod / NAACP scandal.
You doctor up and cherry pick information, splice it together as a form of propaganda, and widely distribute a very opaque and biased piece of information as scientific consensus.
I, for one, have some seriously deep suspicions about the honesty and accuracy of this survey. When comparing it to real life experience, growing up in a moderately conservative upper middle class lily white Texas suburb, it’s the same sort of leaflet I recall seeing that claimed having sex after the prom would give me Chlamydia and that condoms had a 50% failure rate. I call bullshit.
Rawrasaur wrote:
“I don’t feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?”
No, and no.
However, if you then suggest that your discomfort is anything other than your own problem, or that your discomfort gives you the right to insist that those people should alter their behaviour and stop listening to that music, then yes, and yes.
The underlying theme from the results of this survey is not merely that these boys/men are uncomfortable with the squishy feelings spotting a bit of curvy female skin gives them. The implication is that it’s the girl’s fault. To insist that it the girl’s responsibility to change her behaviour when the boy’s religious culture leaves him psychologically incapable of coping with his own sexual urges is indeed logically indefensible, and ridiculous.
And yes, those who publicly express ridiculous opinions should expect to be publicly ridiculed.
I agree that insisting that women change their behavior is ridiculous. Where in the survey are they insisting that it is the women’s responsibility to change their behavior?
…really?
and
And of course the entire survey is the men talking about women’s attire and behavior, thereby putting the responsibility (and blame) on them.
Honestly, did you even read this post?
I always thought of insisting as “You must do this” and not “Please do this.” It seemed like a request to me.
“I always thought of insisting as “You must do this” and not “Please do this.” It seemed like a request to me.”
A request? In what society do you see the religious make “requests” that everyone follow their rules? Where those requests are free to be turned downed without any form of negative consequence. Every post that you’ve made has been either a defense of these morons or a demand that people not criticize them.
Why? Just, why? I’m genuinely curious.
[[wsmcneil wrote:
..Rawrasaur wrote:
“I don’t feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?”..
No, and no.
However, if you then suggest that your discomfort is anything other than your own problem, or that your discomfort gives you the right to insist that those people should alter their behaviour and stop listening to that music, then yes, and yes. ]]
Not only that but the whole thing implies that there is something deficient in the women who do *not* meet their standards. That those women would somehow deserve not being respected which of course leads to victim blaming if something does actually happen to someone who does not fit their closed minded description of respectability.
One word: Butters.
No, you’re right, Rawrasaur, they aren’t insisting women change their behavior. They’re just giving notice that, should women continue to show skin, reach for things over their heads, or run without having their boobs strapped down, they will view those women as terrible harlots unworthy of the slightest respect.
Similarly, we’re not insisting they change their views, we’re just giving notice that we think they’re pathetic misogynists unworthy of the slightest respect.
If you’ve got no problem with them pointing down their arms and screaming “Whores!”, I don’t see why you’ve got a problem with us laughing down our sleeves.
@Candlejack: “[…] I don’t see why you’ve got a problem with us laughing down our sleeves.”
As a certified harlot, I’m not EVEN WEARING SLEEVES.
“This sounds stupid, but I’ll be honest: The strings invite a tug.”
Jesus invited a tugs all the time. Then they burned him.
This reminds me of my mother in law telling me [a long story I won’t repeat] that basically ends in how we keep making women responsible for men’s behavior, and this is just another example. My sister is in a cult that does this crap. No swimsuits, only long skirts, pants are evil, five kids they can’t afford for Jesus. She wasn’t allowed to be alone with her now husband for any amount of time while they were dating.
65 percent have a problem with girls who have to adjust a bra strap in public.
If that’s a problem, maybe locking yourself in a mental ward and staying there would be good? This isn’t even something a girl has control over half the time – bras are uncomfortable a lot and they shift. This is creepy.
Women in short shorts bending over pointing their asses at you ARE causing sinful thoughts! Just today, I explored my vestigial lesbianism by letting myself be tempted to look. It was indeed enjoyably sinful.
Rawr: are you playing the devil’s advocate, or just trolling? Figured I’d ask.
I refuse to consider the possibility that you’re posting seriously, though.
Jeans more immodest than any skirt? Well I suppose so, at least judging by the fact that I’m a guy and I almost always think any given woman looks better in jeans. Even very short skirts somewhat conceal a woman’s shape, while most jeans accentuate it.
As for modesty, I say schmodesty! Guys too. I think most of us are overbearingly modest in our own clothing choices.
[…] […]
How dumb!!! So basically we need to be covered up like Muslams (no offense to Muslams!). And we can’t go swimming, because boys can’t handle seeing girls in swimming suits! Plus this article is so sexist!! “See, men are big and strong, and we shouldn’t hit people. And women aren’t big and strong, but they are pretty, so they shouldn’t hit people metaphorically with their choice of clothing.” STUIP!!!! I’d like to have a nice “chat” with who ever made this!!
im 14, catholic, i go to church everyday and i believe in god… and these fags have no life!!! i couldnt live without girls! seriously, fuck those homos haha
(im a guy) yeaa these douches are trying to blame girls for their horniness and blue balls lol “dont wear hot stuff so we dont get tempted” if you want to ruin your life buy not having any fun dont blame everyone else for why youre a deppressed fuck lol
Omg even I am a christian girl and even I think this is a bit extreme! I mean come on I feel sinful if her butt is towards me?! Is a man that incapable of controlling him self I mean geeze if I see a hot guy I don’t get all nervous when he walks past they r lame
I was one of the guys involved in setting this thing up back in the day. That long comment — “Sisters in Christ” blah blah blah — was me.
Looking back, I can’t believe how stupid I was. We were all raised to believe that modesty was the female responsibility to prevent men from “stumbling”, so it seemed perfectly natural to host a massive survey inviting sexually frustrated homeschool teens and disturbingly prurient old men (hint: responses go a lot higher than 35) to provide “loving direction” to women of all ages on exactly what turns us on. Because, after all, it’s the girl’s job not to turn the guy on.
So utterly stupid and harmful.
Your criticism against how Christians dress makes me wonder how you must dress. I don’t believe you are a Christian or you might actually understand what those men were talking about. Listen, I used to wear pants and dress wickedly, but then I got saved and I want to please God with how I dress now. Every time I see someone scantily clad it makes me sad. Why do girls need to dress so provocatively? What are they trying to prove to everyone? That they have no self respect?? Because that’s sure what it looks like. And I honestly believe that if you want to dress confidently then you’ll cover up so you don’t have to worry if your behind or your chest is hanging out.
The Bible never said to judge men like, implying that they are “tempted” to “attack”? What? These foemeanist girls are pathetic. So is using profanity like saying damn. The Bible never said to jail men for compliments. They have misquoted the book of Proverbs to try to justify that and socalled “correctness”.
Dont worry we might feel the same way about you, you might not deserve the slightest respect for insulting us by having the audacity to call our compliments, “harassment”. Everybody on here is going to give account on judgement day for what they typed, including having the nerve to call us “pathetic” “misogynists”. Death of femininity is what happened ladies ceased to dress like ladies and dress like two-bit flusies. Womens baser urge is to pass judgement on men,their compliments,whistles,etc. disturbly prurient old women. Disturbingly judgemental women here. They should have focused more on keeping the sabbath holy and pleasing God and Jesus than focusing on being selfish and getting men to admire the cleavage of their bosoms on Sunday which is not the day to profane by doing this and wearing pants at church is unladylike too.