So I contacted DC about the mistaken “created by” credit on Vibe. Helpfully, they’re removing the “created by” credit entirely.
— Gerry Conway (@gerryconway) February 22, 2013
(This is apparently not the only such instance; Mark Waid noted in response to Conway that he did not get a creator credit for Impulse on Young Justice.)
It’s really simple: this is completely indefensible. Completely. It’s all the more shameful when you consider that DC, following their granting of a pension to Siegel and Shuster, was the comics company that trumpeted their creators front-and-center and pioneered the practice of putting creators’ names on the cover. I strongly suspect Man of Steel (which I really want to see) will be the last DC-themed anything I purchase for quite some time, and I already know I’m going to have to counterbalance it with an equal donation to the CBLDF or something just to keep from feeling guilty.
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Why is it that I must abandon the comics company that I’ve followed for the past 12 years of my 16 year life? Oh, what an agon–Oh yeah, it’s because their fraudulent creative and management decisions have bubbled to the top enough to form a 12-pound bottle of Mr. Bubble. Er…ooh, look! Hawkeye trades!
Fortunately, just about all my favorite characters vanished or became unrecognizable in the New 52, so I don’t have any interest in the current comics that would make this a cause for conflict!
DC Comics owns some of my favorite fictional characters of all time. I am glad that I have enough content featuring them that I never have to read another “New 52” comic in my life.
I’m pleased to say that I haven’t read a single “New 52” issue. (Not because of a smug sense of superiority or anything, but because comics haven’t been available in my area for about two years, and DCs haven’t been in stores here for a good five years before that.)
That being said, I was thinking about ordering a few trades online just to check ’em out. Thank you, Gerry Conway, for showing me the error of this notion.
Not crediting creators is lame. Not using those characters to tell compelling, coherent stories is lamer.
I think you have that in reverse. Other than that, I agree with you.
I did not need another reason.
Oh damn. Vertigo is an imprint of DC and I still haven’t got all the old Hallblazer and I still buy Fables, despite the drop in quality after the Empire’s fall. Oh, never mind. I have no choice but to continue to feed the evil megacorp my money.
So, uh… any chance we can get some details for those of us who have no clue what happened?
My understanding of the situation (pieced together largely from a few posts such as this):
DC came out with a new comic series for Vibe, a character first created by Gerry Conway and Chuck Patton in the 1980s. The new comic, on the credits page, attributed the creation to Gerry Conway and Luke McDonnell.
Some folks bring this to Gerry Conway’s attention, so he contacts DC regarding the error. They apparently decide to helpfully resolve the issue by removing the ‘created by’ credit entirely.
DC Comics: classy as ever.
DC and Marvel are both consistently terrible toward creators. It makes it pretty easy to not support either company.
I’ve completely changed my opinion about pirating Marvel comics after Gary Friedrich got screwed over. They charge $4 for 20 pages, barely pay most of their creators, and then use the profits to hire lawyers to attack the people who made the suits all their money.
It’s kind of a non-issue with DC though. They haven’t published much I want to read in a year and a half.
How about getting comic TPBs through interlibrary loan or, if your local library has individual issues, read them there? The library’s money may go to DC or Marvel, but your money won’t!
The problem is that if you check out, say, a TPB of Grant Morrison’s JLA run from the library, the library might get the wrong idea and order a copy of the Nu52 Justice League TBP when that comes out.
For the Gary Friedrich thing – Ty Templton did a Bun Toons explaining why Marvel was actually right in in this scenario. Here’s a link:
http://tytempletonart.wordpress.com/tag/gary-friedrich/
@Urthman: That’s the library’s money, not yours; and it will cost DC significantly more in the long run due to all the people who won’t need to buy it with it readily available for free. Take it from someone who’s been doing this for the past 15-ish years: Getting your shit from libraries, whether comics or other stuff, is the best possible option for obtaining anything you can by it.
The library’s money may go to DC or Marvel, but your money won’t!
That’s the library’s money, not yours
I don’t know how they fund libraries where you live … but where I live, that is most certainly my money. Our public library is funded by taxpayers. The levy may be small (and the percentage going towards collection acquisition may be a much smaller percentage) but if they acquire it, a little bit of my money is going to DC or Marvel.
Take this from someone who actually works at a library: libraries are far more likely to buy graphic novels and trades because they’re newly-released, not because they’re tracking characters.
If you think loans on Morrison’s JLA are directly prompting Nu52 Justice League trade buys, you’re honestly overthinking it.
…but if they acquire it, a little bit of my money is going to DC or Marvel.
Your money also goes to buy Ann Coulter books, gay sex manuals, books on Islam, books on serial killers, and stuff in languages you don’t know how to read.
In short, your library’s automatically buying stuff people somehow feel opposed to. It’s pretty sweet.
So you don’t spend money on Marvel either, given their treatment of Jack Kirby… right?
It says a lot about the terrible state of DC Comics that they even consider a third-tier character like Vibe worth the bother of screwing creators over. It’s sort of like watching a bum fighting a starving seagull over a soggy french fry.
Your money might not go to libraries. around here library funds come out of property taxes, so non-property owners can’t say their taxes go to the library. (But they can support the library through other ways. Like using rhem in a quantifiable way to justify the library’s importance in the community.)
damanoid- I’d bet they removed the created by tag less to screw anyone over and more to avoid headaches. Now they don’t have to research who created what when, or deal with letter accusing them of attempting to cheat someone because of a mistake.
They’ll have to deal with people accusing them of intentionally screwing someone, but they probably already had those anyway.
I believe Conway isn’t getting any credit for Felicity Smoak appearing in Arrow either and has had to fight for acknowledgement of his creation of Count Vertigo.
Your money might not go to libraries. around here library funds come out of property taxes, so non-property owners can’t say their taxes go to the library.
But what do you think rent money goes towards, then?
Honestly I would rather read fan fiction at this point. There is no significant artistic difference between DC Comics and fan fiction authors, although:
1) Fanfic writers don’t have a history of exploiting and abusing the creators they borrow from
2) Fanfic writers are prohibited from profiting from their work by the threat of legislation by multinational entertainment corporations, backed up by transparently corrupt intellectual property law lobbied into existence by said corporations, so
3) Fanfic writers do what they do not for money but out of affection for characters and stories, not to exploit trademarks and leverage merchandising opportunities.
I’m serious, point me in the direction of fan fiction that isn’t porn or transparent wish-fulfillment for the author (because corporate superhero comics are increasingly exactly that anyway, and repulsive for a whole other series of reasons besides), and I’ll gladly and gratefully read it. Hell, I’d even pay for it, if it were legal to do so!
Discussions like “your library money goes to support…” are why I’ve largely ceased worrying about where my money goes except for who I give it to directly, i.e. the retailer and manufacturer of the product. Attempting ethical audits on every transaction I make beyond that would make my head explode, and demanding an entire infrastructure conform entirely to my politics is… kinda silly.
Which is not to say it’s not worthwhile to boycott, or to withhold money from companies or people you find unconscionable, just don’t play Six Goddamn Degrees of Kevin Bacon with it because that way lies madness.
As to how to read DC stuff while not helping DC? Easy answer: if you want something from DC, just buy it used. They get no more money from that, and the money that’s already been given them can’t be changed now anyway. For some reason (perhaps distaste for the company? You could be helping!) that person now wants the book gone and their money back. Everybody wins.
Hard answer: you could, you know, make an actual sacrifice and refuse to support them in any way. Even if it means missing good comics or movies.
But I’m a Toy Dork, and considering Mattel’s MattyCollector and the Transformers Collector’s Club are still in existence despite years of horrid business practices, I know not to hold my breath on my fellow nerds. 90% or more will complain and complain and complain and complain and go buy it anyway.
Wonder Woman: The Awakening
Chapter One
The breeze blew softly through Diana’s hair as she arrived at Justice League HQ. Something nagged at her, something unfulfilled.
“Why, Baron Gravy,” she gasped, noticing for the first time the powerfully-physiqued hero across the room. Despite his rugged handsomeness, his tragedy-ravaged soul made him even more mysterious and desireable to her.
“I did not mean to startle you, Princess,” his husky yet manful tones embraced her, seemed to probe beneath her composed facade to unknown depths of womanness.
Suddenly she could not deny herself any longer. She rushed to the Baron’s arms and, moaning, she
Read MORE at http://www.dc-fan-literature.net!
I wanna see a Who’s Who on Baron Gravy. STAT!
@Diego Ibarra: rent money goes to the landlord, who has his own moral agency. Otherwise, everyone who pays for anything pays for everything because money circulates.
Fletcher Wortmann: at AO3 the kink fanfic is clearly labeled as such & there is a lot of comics fic that is pretty serious, dealing with realistic effects of superpowers, or, of living in a world w supervillain battles, being out of ones own time, going from the Worlds Fair to post Space Age & societl changes, etc ect, and some of the writers are bigger continuity pr0n nerds than the whole DC & mrvel staffs put together….
NotTheBuddha: no matter the landlords moral agency they still have to pay their property taxes right?? that is the taxes, for the property, that they are renting to us….which goes directly to pay for the things that get paid for out of property taxes. they dont get to opt out of paying property taxes, and they do pay for them , with the money they make by renting the properties, so yes we renters still do pay for the public things paid for by property taxes even if it is at a remove (this is oftn used as an excuse to re disenfranchise us even if that is not how you were intending it!! tax increases translate into rent hikes every Single time…)
I maintain that Wonder Woman: The Awakening by Unstoppable Gravy Express is less morally objectionable than and/or artistically superior to like 75% of the new 52.
Seriously, if it’s UGE or Fabian Nicieza I’m gonna pick the book written by Gravy Express, no question.
As much fun as it is to rag on DC for being a terrible and despicable company (and dont get me wrong, it is heaps of fun) if Before Watchmen didn’t get people to stop reading their product this isn’t going to do anything.
Re: using the library to hold the moral high ground AND read DC comics.
If you want to read DC comics then just do it. These arguements, while cleverly and intricately argued, are just ways of justifying behaviour you’ve already decided on doing.
Sure, the New 52 sucks. But wait till you get a taste of the UGE-52! With such scrumptious titles as “The Gravy of Firestorm”, “Gravy League International”, “Birds of Gravy”, “Frankenstein: Agent of G.R.A.V.Y.”, and “Constantine”, you’ll be eagerly lapping it up in no time, begging weakly to guzzle down more of that warm, thick artistic juice!!
Coming soon, often, and powerfully, wherever the very absolute finest in comics are sold!
Not crediting creators is a good moral reason to avoid DC.
The fact that they’re creatively down to a friggin’ VIBE solo series seems a better reason purely on aesthetic grounds. A walking ethnic stereotype seems a bit backwards when they already have a fully realized hispanic character in Jaime Reyes.
Maybe they were unhappy about his Punisher T-shirt.
Levitz was right.
@Dave Clarke: Defeatist much? Or maybe defensive much, I can’t tell. Yeah, of course DC is going to keep on slouching, but refusing to buy a product is really the best way a consumer can vote against a company that is doing unethical things. Yes, it may just be a token gesture, but at least it’s something. Sure some people use this as an excuse to keep on pirating, but I think its absurd to paint everyone who disagrees with DC with the same brush.
@Archie 5
Im not sure if Im being defeatist. I stopped reading DC (and Marvel) after they announced Before Watchmen (except for 3 issues of Seaguy which were on sale on Comixology). I’ve just heard on so many places on the internet about people saying they’re going to give up supporting DC or Marvel but then dont.
And then we have to have stupid arguements about property tax and rent when really all that is happening is people want to read DC comics and also have the moral high ground.
Im all for having principals and sticking to them, but if giving up Batman Inc is too much to sacrifice then why bother?
Whelp, to be fair, nobody should ever have to give up Batman Inc.
I’d rather DC editorial gave up the DCU to more capable hands (read: pretty much anyone who isn’t Geoff Johns, Bob Harrass, Dan Didio and Tony S. Daniel). The only reason DC seems to sell at all is because of the power of the IP, power that is being diminished each and every day that these fucktards are allowed to run them directly into the ground.
Marvel is better, seeing as they credited Bryan Hitch for designing Hawkeye’s new costume in Avengers Assemble while not crediting the guys who created the character.
Question: the only DC I’ve been buying has been trades of older comics, mostly the Jack Kirby collections and Hitman. I’d like to buy used so DC doesn’t get anything, but I’m assuming Kirby’s estate and Ennis get money from sales of these trades. Is that right?
@Dave Clarke
I know exactly what you are talking about, and yes, it is EXTREMELY frustrating. However, many people like myself have stopped buying DC comics. I enjoyed Morrison’s run on Batman, but around the time he started running his mouth off last year I stopped buying Batman and frankly any other product he was a part of. Hypocracy may run abound, but there are still many people who are sticking to their principles. Super heroes are nice, but they are not the world, and anyone who thinks they can’t live without them are lying to themselves.
@Alegretto: I’ve had this fantasy for years where a new set of decision makers come along and do a company-wide event that reveals that everything since Infinite Crisis happened in some weird alternate universe and that the old, pre-Dan DiDio DC universe has been quietly chugging along in its own reality.
It would start by revealing that the Dibnys are still alive and go from there.
There would be a Heroes Return-type mini-series where NuDC gets changed back into old DC and, basically, nothing Geoff Johns wrote since his early days on JSA actually happened.
I seriously think that there will come a day when they have to do something like that to keep selling new comics.
I’ve been seeing stuff like this in comics for 25 years now. You guys always end up reading DC or Marvel again. I’d say you were like abused wives but you’ve all got way too much righteous indignation for the simile to work.
Uh, Mark Waid DOES get credit for Impulse as this screenshot proves:
http://i.imgur.com/hvBompV.jpg
If at any point his name didn’t come up is that they just give credit when the characters appear in the episodes, not if they didn’t appear or had just a non-speaking cameo.
We’ve seen Superman and Batman not get credit even though they appeared but since they didn’t talk, the show didn’t credit them.
So this is just a big ball of nothing.