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mygif

The story is how they escape.

That’s actually…kinda brilliant. Easily the best idea to sprout from the manure-crusted filth of OMD. And far too smart for Quesada to come up with.

Why the hell aren’t you working in comics, again?

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mygif

http://seanb.livejournal.com/605481.html

Some good ideas there too.

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Tom Galloway said on January 8th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

Actually, I’m not quite sure what the story is behind Sins Past. What seems to have been revealed is that originally JMS wanted to do it with the kids being Peter’s, and JoeQ vetoed it. Not sure which came up with the idea of moving the paternity to Norman, or why at some point JMS didn’t just say “OK, this isn’t working any more, let’s do a different story” (since it was hardly a necessary story or one that had fan demand behind it; they should’ve been able to just not do it).

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mygif

See, “Sins Past” with the kids being Peter’s works, though. The problem with the storyline as it arrived is that Gwen Stacy fucked Norman Osborn, which is hugely wrong on any number of levels. Gwen sleeping with Peter and hiding a pregnancy, with the right explanation, is possible, and the Spider-angst Peter would feel about HIS OWN KIDS BEING BAD GUYS AND MUTATED AND SHIT is entirely appropriate for the title.

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Rob Brown said on January 8th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

That would definitely make it good.

I’m confused about one thing, though.

If the two of them are actually in Mephisto’s Hell, what is to stop Mephisto from making a grab for Peter’s soul? As you pointed out in the other blog entry, Peter’s presence in that realm means Mephisto can do just that and it’s exactly what he’d want to do.

Plus, how did they end up in Hell to begin with? Was their agreement to the deal consent enough for Mephisto to abduct the two of them?

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Rob Brown said on January 8th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

Oh yeah, I’m also pretty sure Peter isn’t in his early 30s yet. If we go by the time that passed between the creation of the Spidey clone and the Clone Saga, that was five years. So if the passage of time is consistent, that works out to something like one year passing on 616 for every four or five years passing in the real world, meaning that all the clone shit happened 2-3 years ago for Peter.

There’s also this, from the thread on Peter David’s site:

Posted by: John Seavey at January 6, 2008 12:49 AM

In Marvel time, they’ve probably been married about 3-7 years. Franklin Richards was 4 1/2 when they got married, he’s somewhere around 10 now (give or take a couple of years, and assuming that his kidnapping to another dimension and subsequent return left him with no net gain in age), so we’ll split the difference and call it a five-year marriage.

My guess would be mid to late twenties. Although Quesada said he was trying to draw Peter looking like he was in his 30s in the conclusion of OMD because, you know, that was while he was married to MJ and aging at an alarming rate as a direct result.

(Yes, seriously.)

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Rob Brown said on January 8th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Gah, sorry for the triple post. Just wanted to clarify that the paragraph above beginning with “My guess…” is me and not John, even though it’s italicized.

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mygif

Wow. It’s weird to find out people actually listen to things I say. :)

For the record, I’m not a fan of your solution, MGK, because it would cause its own issues…probably. It would be fine if you applied it right away, but as time goes by, sooner or later there are going to be references to the BND continuity in other series, and then you’re stuck in a situation where your “escape” retcon causes as many continuity problems as your original retcon.

Me, I’d just say, Mephisto didn’t actually change history–he tampered with memories and evidence, which is presumably easier. Peter and MJ fall back in love, and that love causes the spell to weaken, restoring the particularly strongly connected memories to their true forms. So, for example, Peter and MJ remember their marriage, because that’s a deep, profound emotional connection…but the average guy on the street still can’t remember who unmasked at that press conference. (But one person would have a very profound emotional connection…JJJ knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man. He can’t prove it, but oh, does he know it. And someday, he’ll get the proof he needs to sell that exclusive to the world!)

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mygif

Any sort of solution’s going to have issues. It’s unavoidable. It’s just a matter of degree.

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mygif

MGK,

Before we give a complete pass to JMS, maybe we should consider: I’m a little suspicious of someone who publicly proclaims “Everything the fans hated was someone else’s fault, all the stuff they liked I get credit for.” Especially since it comes from a guy who “didn’t want to embarrass Marvel or Quesada by publicly protesting” and announces that in his…uhhh…public blog. “Self-serving” doesn’t begin to describe JMS, I think.

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mygif

The only problem is that it doesn’t allow for his idendity to be re-covered up, like I hoped it would. I mean, it’s not like Joe Q seems to have problems with remasking eben though it’s only been a year. Also, Tony Stark could probably piece together what happened. He would just think “hey, why the heck don’t I know who Spider-Man is? And Why was I hanging out with Peter Parker so much?

Maybe Dr. Strange could learn the truth and mystically give back Spidey and MJ their memories, but otherwise leave the situation the same. On second thought, that would cause problems too. Or maybe it was all a dream and Peter wakes up at the same time as Aunt May.

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mygif

Actually, the way I heard it at least, JMS wanted the kids to be Peter’s, Joey said nuh uh, so somehow they came up with it being Norman’s.

BEFORE THE STORY STARTED BEING WRITTEN.

If JMS hated the idea so much, pitch something else. But he went with it, so while it isn’t *as* bad, it’s still something for which he is to blame.

Also, everyone forgetting Peter being Spidey was not part of their arrangement. It was not something asked for. It was, so to speak, a bonus. As such, when they jump out of hell, assuming other books follow this, it’s perfectly logical to have no one remember it, other than Mary Jane (via being in hell with him). If they need more, just go with Slott’s “he was just a Scarlet Spider, not the real thing” and have them remember the unmasking as “some nobody trying to steamroll us into registration”

Or something.

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mygif

Joe Q is a fucking moron. Nuff said. The first step to fixing Spider-Man now is to lobotomize Joe Q, cut off his arms and legs and dump the drooling remains of his intellectually retarded ass out in the middle of Amish country.

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mygif

I just picked up the last part of OMD and the first of BND. Having finally read all of OMD, I gotta say…

… I still think it’s a feint. The whole issue (#4) was basically a love letter to the marriage. Half the dialogue was about how great Peter and MJ’s love was, and nothing could keep them apart, and their marriage was one of the all time greats, etc, etc. The story made a case for keeping them married, not breaking them up.

Paul O’brien, on one of his websites, said that One More Day (and House of M, which is what he was mainly talking about) are perfectly fine as story beginnings. Depower all mutants, have the Devil break up Peter and MJ: these are things to be overcome, not stories in and of themselves. And I have to believe that Marvel has enough people with a sense of strong storytelling to recognize this.

The whole issue to me just screamed “This is NOT the end!”

As for BND, so far it’s solid Spider-Man, but it’s completely overshadowed by OMD.

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mygif

Brian Disco Snell Said:
Before we give a complete pass to JMS, maybe we should consider: I’m a little suspicious of someone who publicly proclaims “Everything the fans hated was someone else’s fault, all the stuff they liked I get credit for.” Especially since it comes from a guy who “didn’t want to embarrass Marvel or Quesada by publicly protesting” and announces that in his…uhhh…public blog. “Self-serving” doesn’t begin to describe JMS, I think.

Just to clarify here – JMS did not announce it on his blog (he doesn’t have one as far as I know). He responded to a question on the rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe newsgroup. His response was archived on jmsnews.com which is an independent website which archives all of JMS’s newsgroup postings.

Furthermore, the statements in quotes above were not made by JMS (not even as a paraphrase). The entirety of his public comments on the issue (as far as I can find) are collected here:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

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