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mygif

Thank you for the post, MGK. Lately, all I’ve been hearing from the Comics Punditry is how easy it is to fix superhero character screw-ups – it’s nice to know somebody isn’t buying into the “one panel fixes everything” conventional wisdom. Any chance of a post expanding on the Hank Pym Forever Unlikability scale?

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Brian T. said on May 6th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

@KD:

“@ Brian T…Roy does have a cybernetic replacement built by Cyborg.”

Thank you, KD.

That makes way more sense than what the writer said in an interview I read. He made it sound like Arsenal would be running around trying to fight with just a stump.

@Chris S.: I think archers are cool. I just prefer the Hawkeye school of “custom arrowheads that actually make sense, such as sonic weapons or explosives” over the Green Arrow school of “all sorts of whimsical stuff that wouldn’t work, such as handcuffs, boxing gloves or antlers.”

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Willie Everstop said on May 6th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

“any current Marvel character that’s been fucked over as comprehensively as Roy Harper”

How about the Scarlet Witch? Or Speedball? A lot of Marvel characters were fucked over in the 90s but we just pretend those stories never happened.

I like archers and Hank Pym. A good archer is an invaluable support unit. Great for breaking stand-offs and hitting a giant robot’s tiny exposed panel.

Hank Pym is powerful and nuts. I think he and Jocasta should adopt Ultron. There was a good Ultron version in early West Coast Avengers, he wanted to be called Mark. They can be one big happy family who starts a crazy team of reprogrammed robotic Avenger villains.

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mygif

Since Hank Pym is the standard for character unlikeability, I would request a picture of Hank Pym kicking Rex the mother-fucking Wonderdog

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Brian T. said on May 6th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

Frankly, an archer with “trick” arrows should be way more useful than Batman in some situations simply due to having a greater effective range and being able to act like a sniper.

Also, there are firing rates to consider. I’ve seen a variety of stats, but let’s assume that Green Arrow can shoot ten times a minute. There should be times when he plows through henchmen two or three times as fast as Batman without getting as tired.

The only reason I can think of to hate on archers is that some DC fans have been trained to be dismissive of anything that doesn’t involve fighting hand-to-hand.

I like Hank Pym too. I never bought into the whole “he’s ruined forever because he abused the Wasp” thing. The guy atoned for that and got “redeemed” at least twice. If it wasn’t for Bendis and Millar, it would be more socially acceptable to like the guy.

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Garnet said on May 6th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

Unless you’re living in Darfur or something, DC stories these days are significantly more depressing than day-to-day life. Who’s asking for that?

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Willie Everstop: “How about the Scarlet Witch? Or Speedball? A lot of Marvel characters were fucked over in the 90s but we just pretend those stories never happened.”

I think that might be the difference here. When Marvel messes with characters, the stupidest things get ignored or written off. They’ve already changed Speedball back, for instance. Stuff like the Clone Saga or Onslaught is usually just forgotten about, save charitable attempts to give Rob Liefeld work years after his relevance.

When DC does it, the stupidest things become an integral part of the character and get worked into the fabric of the universe through a convoluted Geoff Johns Continuity Snare.

I guess it’s like this: Marvel writes off whole storylines that don’t work; DC explains the origins of costume choices. Marvel adapts; DC justifies. And I love DC, but in the past decade they’ve turned into the snake that’s eating its own tail. I don’t know how much longer they can go on like this before what they’ve got is completely unreadable.

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@Willie Everstop:

Hank Pym is powerful and nuts. I think he and Jocasta should adopt Ultron.

in the most recent issue of Mighty Avengers, Pym officiated the marriage between Jocasta and Ultron.

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mygif

Well, why SHOULDN’T Thanos eat a planet? After all, he’s done everything else. He’s tried to take over the universe three times and failed three times, finally winding up in semi-retirement. He created nihilistic clones of based on various aspects of his personality. He forced the Silver Surfer to recite Hamlet. He tried to tentacle-rape Galactus. He committed perjury against his own half-brother.

I’m sure, given the chance, he’d write his own name in a Death Note just for kicks, despite him already having made continguency plans if such a thing happened to him, Death sending him back just to get rid of him, and the fact that Death Notes only work on humans.

When you think about it, Thanos is one of the most potentially FUN villians to write, simply because everything he does is Silver-Age Batshit Insane. Darkseid has his own personal dictatorship planet and worldwide army? BAH! Thanos has no such need for the noble sacrifices of lesser beings – he’ll personally do the job himself!

It’s these kind of comparisions that remind me of the vocal arguements about which Final Fantasy villain is better – Sephiroth or Kefka. I’m firmly in the Kefka camp, having played FFVI before FFVII (I’m only just playing it after picking it up at a garage sale). It’s also interesting that while people think of Thanos as a rip-off of Darkseid, Sephiroth is basically a rip-off of Kefka. (Some have even posted the arguement that VII was a complete rip-off of VI) If you think about it, Kefka is the most HUMAN of all the Final Fantasy villians. Everything he does (apart from the magic) was something that could be done by human hands.

What we need more of is not nihilistic stories that wouldn’t be out of place in a Kafka setting, but stories where we like the heroes and villians EQUALLY for different reasons, and really WANT to see the heroes kick the villians butts.

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Willie Everstop said on May 7th, 2010 at 1:05 am

“in the most recent issue of Mighty Avengers, Pym officiated the marriage between Jocasta and Ultron.”

Gross. Didn’t Jarvis recently explain to Jocasta that Ultron was actually her father. All robots like Pym because he is the father of modern AI.

Thanos was never really a hands-on kind of guy before the Infinity Gems. He used to have a huge army of intergalactic space pirates but I think Thanos sacrificed them all just to distract his enemies for a second.

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Willie Everstop said on May 7th, 2010 at 1:09 am

Just to sort of get back on topic, is Roy Harper’s lost arm the same arm he was pumping heroin into on that famous cover?

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Allegretto said on May 7th, 2010 at 11:41 am

“Just to sort of get back on topic, is Roy Harper’s lost arm the same arm he was pumping heroin into on that famous cover?”

WOW THAT IS SO POETIC CRY FOR JUSTICE IS MORE AMAZING THAN A CRAB WITH A CIGAR!

I so hope that is true and on purpose.

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Ultron’s relationship with Jocasta is even more gross because he used his “mother” the Wasp’s mental patterns to create her personality, and he named her after Oedipus’ mother in order to beat the reader over the head with the Freudstick.

Damn, no wonder Aaron Stark had to attach himself to a Martian war machine to get his will to liveback.

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mygif

Since we’re talking about DC telling you that you don’t like comics the right way, I wanted to ask: MGK, any comment on Outsiders 29, which seems to have Dan DiDio literally vilifying a message board poster he dislikes?

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Bahama'at said on May 8th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

In a lot of ways your post echoes a reoccurring conversation my ex-roomate and I have on Wednesday (we take a “civil servant’s lunch break” to grab food, get our new releases and shoot the proverbial poop). He’s always been the Marvel/DC Comic Book guy, I didn’t really get into comics until I lived with him during university and now I tend to get Dark Horse, IDW, and Wildstorm stuff along with my manga. We compare our favourite comic settings – DC’s rape&angst factor vs my “infamous in the 90s for being so 90s” Wildstorm. The key difference between us has been (aside from both of us reading GL titles for our respective Hal/Kyle debates), when I finish my weekly feed I don;t hate myself or the comics I just bought, meanwhile he’s shedding titles like a cat loses hair on your new chair, fed up with the unrelenting grimdarkness of it all. What happened to this world when any random Authority or WildCATS single has less sex and violence porn than a mainstream DC title?

I’d normally say that for all the kvetching about the grimdark, it sells, but in the case of DC that just doesn’t seem to actually work as well as it does for Marvel.

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[…] Also worth your time: MGK ragging on bad comics. But on top of this being about Roy Harper, whom you don’t care about much when you think about […]

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Michael P said on May 9th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

Ironically, crap like “Rise of Arsenal” is supposed to make us think superheroes are serious and deep.

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Snorpenbass said on May 9th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

“But you know what? If I pick up a Spider-Man comic, I barely ever have to read a thinly veiled diatribe from some writer about how I’m wrong for not liking Spider-Man the way that they like Spider-Man. I just get a Spider-Man story. “Here,” Marvel says to me, “here’s the Spider-Man story we’re going to write. It might not be quite your thing, we hope it is, but if not… I dunno, I guess DC just resurrected Barry Allen, do you like that? Then read that. We’re gonna write Spider-Man the way we think he should be written, and that’s all we have to say about it.””

…except Marvel is as bad at this as DC. They published an entire What If right after the retconning of Spidey’s marriage whose entire point was “Spidey should never have gotten married in the first place, nyah nyah nyah, stoopid fanboys!”

…which is why I only read The Boys for supers now. At least it’s honest about hating the subject matter it’s about… 😉

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Sunflare2k5 said on May 10th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

They killed Lian?! (checks Wikipedia) …they killed her. 🙁

I hadn’t seen much of her, but the few times I had she seemed like a happy little kid who got the people around her happy as well. She was a break from the angst and “massive seriousness that we must assume to show comics aren’t for kids… except we draw lots of babes so we’ve only moved the bar up to teenagers.”

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[…] But it was his impassioned salvo against JUSTICE LEAGUE: THE RISE OF ARSENAL that made me send a comment to one of his posts for the first time, that I think I’d like to discuss here as well. […]

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Makes you wonder why they did all that stuff with Green Arrow mending his wicked ways and getting married to Black Canary if they just intended to…

…oh, hell. They set us up for this, didn’t they? Ollie and Dinah marry, Roy becomes Red Arrow and joins the Justice League, everybody’s happy-happy, and then they drop the anvil. Thanks, DC. I didn’t think there was anyone out there as sadistic as Russell T. Davies, but you guys are stiff competition.

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mygif

I think you’re assuming a level of planning that just wasn’t there. One angle on the Arrow family didn’t work, sales on the GA/BC book cratered again, and now they’re trying something else that probably won’t work.

Granted, GA as an outlaw in a weird city/forest hybrid is a great concept, but the path it took there was so malignantly stupid and has engendered to much ill-will that the book is pretty much ruined before it’s started.

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Loreweaver said on June 14th, 2010 at 9:19 am

It makes me sad that there’s so little love for Green Lantern. That segment of DC is still fairly high-quality.
Also whafuck is up with Pete and Gwen being together in Ultimate Spidey, but thank God they canceled Ultimate X-Men.

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mygif

“8.2 Pyms”

Heh, that is pretty good.

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