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Alegretto said on April 16th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

This doesn’t look nearly as bad as I feared it might.

I’m so glad.

At the very least, this trailer has done what Superman ought to: Given me hope :’D

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El Acordeonachi said on April 16th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

Every single trailer I’ve seen (and I’ve seen them all) for this movie has gotten it so very very wrong until now. The tone they set in those was so negative, especially in the case of Pa Kent (the whole wanting Clark to hide himself, for fear of what mankind would do to his son). Even though that is still here in this new trailer, it’s overshadowed by the positive tone in Jor-El’s dialogue. I’ve now got a really good feeling about this…

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Mitchell Hundred said on April 16th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

I’ve said this before, but pretty much every Snyder trailer looks awesome. It just makes it all the more disappointing when the actual films turn out to be shit.

Which is not to say that that is sure to happen here, but the man’s history is enough to keep me from getting stoked.

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DistantFred said on April 16th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

Okay, it’s starting to look really solid.

However, the way all the Superman movies have had the big Jor-El voice over explaining how Superman is a mighty god-man sent from space to make humanity better doesn’t really sit right with me. There’s enough Christ allegory in Superman without making it so explicit, and Clark is a stronger character when he is choosing to do good for the sake of good rather that doing good because His Father Delivered Him Unto Man.

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@DistantFred

Yeah, I’m kindof on that side too – Krypton should be irrelevant to Superman’s character, which is all about Earth and the Kents. Frankly, if he explained his origin as “I’m from a great big smouldering crater in Kansas, so I guess… probably space?” it wouldn’t (or at least shouldn’t) make any difference to the story at all.

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@El Acordeonach and DistantFred: Seconded.
It’s a good trailer and it almost takes the bad taste of the earlier ones out of my mouth…almost.

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Alegretto said on April 16th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

Well, I too prefer it way more when Jor-El or his kryptonian heriitage have no impact in Clark’s decision to be a force for good, but I guess they Smallville’d it up a bit in order for audiences to be more familiar with the whole thing.

I’m glad to see, however, that he traveling around is less about him becoming “a man of the world” and more about him knowing humanity and trying to do the most good while undercover. I feel like Supes (as opposed to Batman) shouldn’t be super worldly, Lois calls him “Smallville” for a reason.

I really don’t like Zod as a villain though, but we’ll see.

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Krypton should be irrelevant to Superman’s character, which is all about Earth and the Kents.

Except that the character’s creators’ were themselves children of immigrants. So having that reflected in Kal-El’s journey from “the old country” to making a new life in America actually works to his benefit.

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Fair enough (and actually shortly after I wrote that I started thinking about this movie’s General Zod, at least as he seems to be developed, and decided that there’s definitely a good metaphorical treatment of all the social baggage brought over unintentionally from the old country in there somewhere). But with the Superman story as it stands, the symbolism in the origin is pretty spare. It certainly doesn’t really require spending much time with Krypton itself, in the same way stories about the American immigrant experience usually don’t get bogged down in the details of the old country.

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DistantFred said on April 17th, 2013 at 1:50 am

My problem is mostly with the messianic quality of the speeches. I am okay with Krypton figuring into Superman’s story… but he was launched as an INFANT, the Last Child of a Dying World. He is the inheritor of a DEAD culture. His father, out of desperation, launched Kal-El to a world he knew little about to give him the chance to survive the death of Krypton. THAT should be the core of Jor-El’s messages to Clark. Not lecturing him on how much greater he is than the locals, reminding him that his birth parents defied the apocalypse to save him. Maybe cultural/scientific knowledge of Krypton to help him prevent the same hubris from destroying Earth.

Krypton and Jor-El should help bolster the moral character of his midwestern upbringing, not load him up with Kryptonian Chauvinism, because as much as Superman is the ultimate immigrant, he’s also an orphan immigrant. His connections to his old world past are distant and indirect, and his interpretations of them can only be understood through the mindset he developed in the years he didn’t even know he was an orphan.

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Gettin’ real tired of your paternalistic shit, Jor-El.

Superman is an inspirational figure of hope and virtue because Ma and Pa Kent raised him right, not because he’s Space Jesus.

Also, that S on his chest is an S.

That said, though, this looks really really good. So did Sucker Punch, but hope springs eternal.

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MonkeyWithTypewriter said on April 17th, 2013 at 6:55 am

The first question that jumped out at me from the trailer is-who is little Clark pretending to be with that cloth around his neck? Can’t be Superman because, well….

That aside, it does look good.

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There are damn few things that have set me up for disappointment as consistently as Superman movie trailers and Zack Snyder movie trailers; irrespective of how good this was, it is both.

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JCHandsom said on April 17th, 2013 at 11:32 am

Well that was pretty great. If you’ll excuse me, I’m going to search the Internet to see if I can find a full version of that song.

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@MonkeyWithTypewriter

If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say that little kid isn’t Clark at all. We never see his face. I’d bet it’s a scene near the end of the movie, possibly just before the credits, where a kid is playing in his yard and pretending to be Superman, having been inspired by the Man of Steel’s example.

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Alexi Sargeant said on April 17th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

Though I have problems with the “the S is not an S, it’s Krytonese for Hope,” trope, I feel like the way it was handled here was satisfactory. The trailer says “Yes, audience, you and Lois Lane both know it’s an S, but we’d also like it to mean “hope,” so just work with us here?” Also great to finally see some screentime for Lois. If the screenwriters don’t mess her up she could be the best part of the movie in Amy Adams’ hands.

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Sean D. Martin said on April 17th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

aboynamedart:

Except that the character’s creators’ were themselves children of immigrants. So having that reflected in Kal-El’s journey from “the old country” to making a new life in America actually works to his benefit.

Except Kal-El was an infant when he arrived and his birth parents (those with knowledge of “the old country”) are absent. So his experience as an immigrant would be no greater than that of a child born here.

It’s good that folks who adopt infants from other lands (the couple who adopts an orphan from Africa, for example) raise then to be aware of their heritage. But it’s, to a large extent, an imposed awareness. The child’s experience growing up will be totally American. They won’t really have a consciousness of being from someplace else. (“All I’ve ever known was an American way of life.”)

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Sean D. Martin said on April 17th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

DistantFred:

he’s also an orphan immigrant. His connections to his old world past are distant and indirect, and his interpretations of them can only be understood through the mindset he developed in the years he didn’t even know he was an orphan.

Exactly. To me, Superman-as-immigrant didn’t ever make much sense. Hell, raised from infancy in Kansas. Can you get much more Mom and apple pie than that?

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Sean D. Martin said on April 17th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

fakefaux:

. I’d bet it’s a scene near the end of the movie, possibly just before the credits, where a kid is playing in his yard and pretending to be Superman, having been inspired by the Man of Steel’s example.

Oh, I like that. I really hope that’s what it is.

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Asher Elbein said on April 17th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

Honestly, is there anything that says “Superman” more then a child with a blanket tied around his neck, hands on hips, staring at the sky?

I love it. Can’t wait.

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I love the trailer, and I feel better about the movie with each new glimpse, but…damn it, how many times do we need to retell Superman’s origin? Or Batman’s, for that matter, or Spider-Man’s? At this point, it’s like retelling the origin of Santa Claus or Sherlock Holmes or Jesus Christ in every damn movie about them — sure, okay, some of them explore that subject, but for the most part, we accept that everyone gets the basic premise and we move on with the action. Pretty much everyone knows that Superman is the last survivor of a doomed planet, sent to Earth by his parents, where he grew up with Midwestern morality and developed amazing powers that he uses to help mankind. Batman: after seeing his parents brutally murdered by a common criminal, he spent years training in martial arts, escape artistry, acrobatics, etc. etc. in order to become a one-man war on crime. Spider-Man: bitten by a goddamned radioactive and/or genetically engineered spider that gave him mutant spider powers, and no one cares that nothing about that premise really makes a lot of sense.

At some point, Hollywood needs to start telling us some new stories. Or at least adapt some better ones. There have been some direct-to-video adaptations, to be sure, which range from excellent to awful; and of course the old DC Animated Universe (beginning with Batman: TAS and concluding with Justice League Unlimited) remains mythic. But it seems like Hollywood would rather tell us the same story every five years in the live-action canon than come up with anything new. At least the Avengers are building a coherent, evolving mythology, but heaven knows how long that will last. I’ll grant you that Spider-Man 3, X3, and The Dark Knight Rises were all…disappointing, to say the least, but at least those trilogies WENT somewhere.

Well, at least I have the next movies in the Avengers cinematic universe to look forward to, as well as Days of Future Past. And hopefully The Man of Steel and the new Batman movie really will end up building toward a Justice League cinematic universe to rival the Avengers.

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HonestObserver said on April 17th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

Wasn’t the Green Arrow or Flash movie supposed to be about him breaking out of prison? That’d be cool, to do a superhero movie without the origin. The only comic book film I can think of that did that in recent years is Dredd.

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@HonestObserver: True, but then Dredd wasn’t a super hero movie at all, so much as it was a throwback to old school action cinema.

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Kristopher A. said on April 17th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

“I love the trailer, and I feel better about the movie with each new glimpse, but…damn it, how many times do we need to retell Superman’s origin? Or Batman’s, for that matter, or Spider-Man’s? At this point, it’s like retelling the origin of Santa Claus or Sherlock Holmes or Jesus Christ in every damn movie about them — sure, okay, some of them explore that subject, but for the most part, we accept that everyone gets the basic premise and we move on with the action. Pretty much everyone knows that Superman is the last survivor of a doomed planet, sent to Earth by his parents, where he grew up with Midwestern morality and developed amazing powers that he uses to help mankind. Batman: after seeing his parents brutally murdered by a common criminal, he spent years training in martial arts, escape artistry, acrobatics, etc. etc. in order to become a one-man war on crime. Spider-Man: bitten by a goddamned radioactive and/or genetically engineered spider that gave him mutant spider powers, and no one cares that nothing about that premise really makes a lot of sense.”

The flaw in this (Besides the fact that we haven’t seen Superman’s origins on the big screen in 35 years) is that this isn’t the same Superman from the same world. Like you say, the basic premise is there… but that’s it. I don’t think anyone would argue that the origin here is going to be the same as the origin in 1978. Sure, it has the same characters… but the take on the characters seems to be much different and the themes being explored are drastically different: the Donner film barely touched on the idea of trusting Superman, while this seems to make it a cornestone of the plot. The Donner film just sort of had him become Superman, while this is actually exploring that decision.

I’d understand if it were simply telling the exact same story again, but it’s clearly not. It’s a different story with very different priorities. While they are both origins, that’s like saying Superman: Red Son and Superman: Secret Origins are the same because they both are origin stories. And sorry if I seem like I’m picking on you, but this is the one case where this really irritates me: if it were Batman or Spider-Man, I wouldn’t say anything. But Superman… this is a new franchise after 30+ years after the beginning of the previous one. Let’s be real here.

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Sean D. Martin said on April 17th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

That’d be cool, to do a superhero movie without the origin. The only comic book film I can think of that did that in recent years is Dredd.

The Tim Burton Batman didn’t. Essentially just a tip of the hat to an origin. Which, really, is how it should be.

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@Themiscyra

I’ve always maintained that a flash movie should center around a post college Wally West coming out of self imposed retirement and taking over the mantle of Flash from a dead Barry Allen vs. a pointless fucking retelling of Barry Allen’s origin. ‘Specially considering that Barry’s origin pretty much has zero dramatic elements to make a whole movie around.

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I like the idea of Jer-El encouraging him to do good because it’s like saying “This world is doing good for you. You should do good for it.”

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The 30 second General Zod video is pretty cool too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU6L_4q2mcM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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“That’d be cool, to do a superhero movie without the origin.”

Isn’t that what Superman Returns tried to be?

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Sean D. Martin said on April 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

Superman Returns was weak because it lacked a decent villain or conflict. Not because it left out 30 minutes of prologue on Krypton and Smallville.

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Isn’t that what Superman Returns tried to be?

No, Superman Returns tried to be a sequel to a previous Superman movie. Sequels generally aren’t origin stories.

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Kyle Wilson said on April 18th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

While I fully support giving donations to CBLDF, however by seeing the movie regardless you are telling DC that you approve of their products and how they produce them. It might make you feel better, but it does nothing to make them change their methods.

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Sean D. Martin said on April 18th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

If the movie is good, it is a product I approve of. Still won’t get me to buy the comics. They’ll have to get much better.

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Superman Returns was a sequel? I thought it was conceived as something of a fresh start to the character, taking as understood his origin. I didn’t think Routh was supposed to be the same character as Reeves.

I like the idea of a superhero-without-the-origin story, but I think it most superhero movies end up following the monomyth structure, and so the origin becomes part of the self-contained monomyth story. Pretty much every hero story I can think of follows the hero’s journey, at least cinematically, because that’s what works in terms of cinematic, three-act structure and the like.

Totally wondered about the shot of the kid with the cape. I like the idea suggested. But was Superman the first hero with a cape? I keep seeing Zorro wearing a cape in my head.

I’m hoping to like this, but I’m not sure. My favorite part of all the old Superman movies was when drunk Supes fought Clark Kent in the junkyard. I like what I’ve seen so far, and the only thing I really know about Snyder is some of the Watchmen movie I watched. I didn’t love that one, but then, I didn’t love the source, either. Cavill looks good as Supes.

But I’d like for there to be a real villain. And a reason Supes isn’t, like, going against dictators and such. I’ve always thought Superman’s villains lame, like Kevin Spacey’s realtor Lex Luthor. If Superman existed, I’d hope he’d actually engage real world problems. Like, I wonder what he’d do–if anything–about North Korea.

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But it’s, to a large extent, an imposed awareness. The child’s experience growing up will be totally American. They won’t really have a consciousness of being from someplace else. (“All I’ve ever known was an American way of life.”)

“Imposed”? Imposed by whom? Some transnational adoptees seek out their native culture on their own.

Not to mention the fact that there is no one “American” experience. If he’d grown up in New York, it would be different than Kansas, which would be different from California (which layers of difference within each of those states, to boot.)

The culture question is what gives the Zod conflict meaning. Because Zod represents a different side of his heritage than does Jor-El. Otherwise Zod and Faora are just Others to Clark, and that viewpoint makes his humanity no different than that of Sam Lane’s. But maybe that’s what some of you would really like to root for.

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@Will Entrekin- Superman Returns was basically a sequel to Superman 2, with 3 and 4 never happening.

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Walter Kovacs said on April 18th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

On the “how many times can you retell an origin” meme:

People know Batman’s origin: Go to movie/play, parents shot, vow revenge.

They may have shown or referenced that in the Burton and Schumaker movies, but it did seem that Batman was pretty much already active by the start of the first movie. Saying “this guy was born, and now, here we are seeing him at 35” isn’t much of an origin story, and going back and doing an early story is not inferior to doing a later one.

Now, it’s possible that this movie covers some of the same ground as the first Donner film, which actually DID deal extensively with pre-Superman time period. However, this film is showing stuff from the post-Crisis Superman origin where he spent time as an uncostumed guardian angel, trying to help without being known. I haven’t watched the Donner movie in a while, but he sort of skips over a big part of his development. He knows he has powers, but he turns 18, finds out he’s an alien, builds the fortress, and comes out basically knowing how to be a hero, having the costume, etc.

Showing that sort of transition period of ‘becoming’ Superman that the other movie skipped over is an opportunity. Just like Batman Begins covers that time period between the shooting and the first Burton movie where Batman actually becomes a hero.

Just because an origin has been told before (and honestly, most origins are just a paragraph at most. “Parents shot when he was 8”. “Planet blew up as a child, raised by farmers”. “Crashed on an island, learned to use a bow.” “Mother was from Atlantis, father ran a lighthouse”. “Test pilot finds alien ring”. “Lightning strikes chemicals giving super speed” etc.

You can do an origin story quick and dirty, or you can tell an “early in the career story”. They aren’t really equivalent.

Spiderman is probably the only one to really double dip on the origin, and even they aren’t covering the same ground. They came up with different scenarios for Uncle Ben’s death, [very similar in set-up, but in the new film, Ben isn’t just shot for his car, he’s actually doing the thing he told Peter to do]. The Raimi movie jumps out of High School immediately, while the new films seem to still be there.

TL;DR: It’s very dismissive to say “well, it’s another origin movie” as if there are not multiple stories that can start from the same point, that the subject has been exhaustively covered already, etc.

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Sean D. Martin said on April 19th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

aboynamedart:

“Imposed”? Imposed by whom? Some transnational adoptees seek out their native culture on their own.

I considered “imposed” might be too strong a term, but couldn’t think of a better on on short notice. In any event, whether something their adpted parents make sure they’re aware of (“impose”) or something the adoptee “seeks out” on their own, the transnational adoptee is not naturally surrounded by their ancestors culture. It is something that has to be actively sought, not something just naturally part of the surrounding world for them to absorb.

Superman is American. Heartland, apple pie, country fair American. He wouldn’t view himself as an immigrant.

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SilverHammerMan said on April 19th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

Still not sure about Zod for this, I liked pretty much everything about this trailer, but every time Zod was onscreen I just rolled my eyes.

I do really like what we’re seeing of Superman in military(?) custody, because his totally laid back demeanor suggests that we won’t be getting a super dark evil government storyline.

That costume though, is still pretty weak.

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SilverHammerMan said on April 19th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

And that “You are my son” moment with Pa Kent? Oh shit, so perfect.

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Kryptonese too British.

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Superman is American. Heartland, apple pie, country fair American. He wouldn’t view himself as an immigrant.

Xenophobe, much?

Also, having actually lived in Kansas, it might shock you to know that there are actual cities there – you know, with buildings taller than three floors, nightclubs, even ::whisper:: people who aren’t white.

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They had me at Michael Shannon as Zod.

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