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Brad Reed said on April 13th, 2016 at 11:10 am

I agree on all points, and wonder why they didn’t try for an obvious out: “magic is weird.”

Maybe Stephen Strange found the Ancient One in the Himalayas and discovered her to be a weird white woman because, deep down, *that’s what he expected.* Maybe Karl Mordo found the Ancient One in, I don’t know, Idaho and sees the Ancient One as a burly Hispanic man because, deep down, *that’s what he expected.* The land of the Ancient One has many doors and AO him/herself has many faces, and the one you find is the one you were looking for.

Boom, done. The Orientalism of the story is derived from Strange’s character, not the world. Also, you get the fun of Strange and Mordo debating if they’re close to Lhasa or Boise and multiple actors shifting through the role of the Ancient One.

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Yeah, I think this piece pretty much nails every feeling I had on that trailer. I do think that casting Ejiofor could open up some interesting directions for Mordo, simply because the actor is so good at being sympathetic–instead of making him overtly bad, maybe he believes that it’s impossible to defend Earth forever and we should be taking a realpolitik approach to demon incursions. (“Okay, so we’ll cede to you three hundred infant souls per year in exchange for your protection against Satannish…”)

But other than that, pretty much just yep yep yep yep yep.

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Halloween Jack said on April 13th, 2016 at 1:57 pm

It’s kind of weird or ironic or something that my big hope for DS was that Pedro Pascal (probably best known for his single season on Game of Thrones as Oberyn Martell) would be cast as Stephen Strange, and now my big hope for Iron Fist is that Finn Jones (best known for being Loras Tyrell on GoT) won’t be able to do IF and they’ll rethink the casting.

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Brad’s idea is awesome, although it’s probably a bit difficult to explain to a regular film audience, and to depict in an effortless-seeming manner in film.

Honestly, I think the best option is to just go with the Orientalism, for a couple of reasons. The first is that whitewashing seems a more pressing concern with fewer facets (it doesn’t help that they cast the whitest whiteys in whitesboro as Strange and the Ancient One. Or that Wong, who is presumably still Strange’s sidekick, is played by an ethnically Chinese actor). Accusing Orientalism is a more subtle, nuanced argument than pointing out that they made a story whiter. You can address the Orientalist aspects in the plot, but if you just cast over it, that’s criticism a film can’t answer.

The second is, well, that last part. You can take that old trope and address it through the story. You can point out that the Ancient One has students from all walks of life and cultures, and that previous Sorcerers Supreme were from different cultures (like the Avatar cartoons do). You can give the Ancient One a multi-cultural or multi-ethnic background while still casting an Asian actor. You can keep the Ancient One as an Asian character but move the sanctuary to another remote location and give it a different aesthetic feel, even one that’s totally alien. There’s a million things you could do that open up conversation rather than hide from it, which is going to inspire criticism anyway.

Also, can we reshoot this film with Michelle Yeoh? She’s just the best.

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I am prepared to give the movie a shot because I walked into Ant-Man prepared to hate it for fridging Janet, for not being a Wasp movie, etc. and I walked out of it thinking “Paul Rudd is a delightful human being and there was some sharp writing in there. Well played, Marvel.”

So, you know. I’m now prepared to walk into this one with the benefit of the doubt. The guys behind the MCU know what they’re doing, apparently. They’re overdue for something that is creatively bad but so far they’re keeping the streak going.

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Damn, Brad Reed’s idea is really brilliant. I don’t actually think it would have been hard at all to explain to film audiences. I think it would have just *rocked*.

And now the actual movie is inevitably going to be a letdown. Jeez, thanks a lot, Brad.

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James DeRiven said on April 13th, 2016 at 9:21 pm

“I am prepared to give the movie a shot because I walked into Ant-Man prepared to hate it for fridging Janet, for not being a Wasp movie, etc. and I walked out of it thinking “Paul Rudd is a delightful human being and there was some sharp writing in there. Well played, Marvel.”

That’s just weird – sure all movies are subjective to the viewer, but I walked out of Ant-man disgusted at just how lazy, unambitious, and tired it was. Not a single unexpected moment in all two hours – damn thing was groaning under the weight of all the rogue-with-a-heart-of-gold tropes. You don’t spend a single second thinking Peter Russo isn’t a villain, you don’t spend a single thinking there is anything morally ambiguous about Paul Rudd’s character. Sue, we know he’s a thief, which is practically an informed trait of “He Has Done Bad Things,” but neither he nor that god-damned hororshow that is the ethnic stereotype sidekick gang ever act CRIMINAL in any way. James Bond resembles a spy more than any of these people resemble criminals – and so when the movie tries to build up tension about if Paul Rudd will do the right thing, there’s no tension at all. Of course h will, we can’t remotely suspend our disbelief for even a fraction of a second.

Ant-man wasted my time, and this I do not forgive.

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Cuitlamiztli Carter said on April 14th, 2016 at 2:33 pm

“Ant-man wasted my time, and this I do not forgive.”

What a great century in which to exist, am I right?

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I don’t know, hasn’t that always been a universal law for art? A work that wastes your time, even competently made, is more offensive than a bad work that inspires thought or conversation.

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Something else I’ve been seeing around the interwebs to consider; Marvel might have cast the Ancient One as a white woman and moved the place Strange goes to study from Tibet to unnamed country (Although I’m being told it will be Nepal in the film?) because they want to air this in China and China will get all up in your grill if you even obliquely mention Tibet or portray, say, an ancient Tibetan lama on-screen.

If that’s true, it’s contemptible on Marvel’s part.

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@Murc: Is there any actual evidence that that has anything at all to do with it, though, or is that just random people speculating? This wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard people come up with speculation along the lines of ” was done to keep people from getting upset in China” based on absolutely nothing at all and be completely wrong about it. And it’s silly to come up with even preliminary conditional judgment based on evidence-free speculation.

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Whoops, that should have been ”[X] was done to keep people from getting upset in China”; angle brackets got eaten by the comment system.

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Is there any actual evidence that that has anything at all to do with it, though, or is that just random people speculating?

How are we defining actual evidence here?

Like, it’s pretty clear that the most recent Transformers movie arranged for a big fight in Hong Kong and a bunch of very out-of-place scenes of PRC bigwigs in Beijing declaiming loudly about how it was their duty to defend that city for no other reason than to curry favor in China, which is an important market to Hasbro in a lot of ways.

But it’s not like they issued an official press release admitting that openly.

There’s been a long trend of having “not Tibet” in many pieces of media for fear of closing access to the Chinese market, tho. That is a thing.

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Unsurpassed Travesty said on April 16th, 2016 at 3:52 pm

I was prepared to overlook the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch, who I largely regard as a failed Turing Test candidate, in the role of Strange. I’m not happy about Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One – yes, Strange’s origin is Orientalist/White Savior as fuck but come on – and I’m seriously not happy about moving the story out of Tibet. Marvel’s been racking up some bad habits and I don’t feel the need to give them my money for this one.

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did Strange actually surpass the Ancient One? I mean he was around long enough to be called the Ancient One and I thought Strange figured the two of them fighting the Ancient One wins

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@Jason: I’m pretty sure MGK has mentioned that at some point Strange became the Sorcerer Supreme, the mantle passing from the Ancient One. He also threw off his debt to the Vishanti, which as far as I know no previous Sorcerer Supreme had managed or dared.

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@Burke The student surpassing the mentor is an old trope but the student being the current best while at least talking up their teacher has also been done quite a bit

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“So doing Doctor Strange’s origin story – which, I repeat, you should want to do, because it is about a bad and broken man healing and becoming a better one”
Totally in agreement. But there’s little hint in the clip that he’s bad or broken, which makes me wonder if, like other film versions, they’ll just duck that.

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William O'Brien said on April 20th, 2016 at 7:13 pm

“Totally in agreement. But there’s little hint in the clip that he’s bad or broken, which makes me wonder if, like other film versions, they’ll just duck that.”

Really? I thought it was very apparent.

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@JayDzed said on April 20th, 2016 at 7:17 pm

@Fraser: The way I read the trailer they definitely flagged the ‘broken’ part, what with the accident, the moment of hand reconstruction/traction and the deliberate juxtaposition of him holding his hands up motionless in hospital scrubs (and therefore completely clean and controlled, at least in implication) versus holding them up shaking whilst being exceedingly scruffy what looks like a cell.

Can the movie sell him as a not very nice/good man prior to the accident who becomes a better one afterwards?

Maybe, but I doubt they’ll do that very well, if only because of how much ground the movie has to cover, narratively.

And that’s before there’s any consideration of whether or not the director or actors can pull it off even if the script manages it.

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William O'Brien said on April 21st, 2016 at 12:04 pm

Tony Stark was not a very good man in the first act of Iron Man and becomes a better one afterwards. The very reason I’ve been hyping a possible Dr. Strange movie to my friends is that the Strange arc is the most similar to the Tony arc. The character arc extends to feature-length better for those two characters than any of the other Marvel Studios characters.

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I like cumberbatch as the doc, if only cause the fact marvel is putting star power on the role speaks well on their ambition to the film. I mean im sure hes more expensive than, say, rudd & pratt, and i hope this means theyll really try to hype the doc.
If reading this blog has taught me anything is that the doc is criminally underused at the moment.
And a succesfull film would do wonders for the character. I still get giddy nowadays when i hear a mainstream iron man reference. I mean before the movies i literally never had an offline conversation about iron man, and nowadays people in morning shows compare things to ironmans armor. Thats insane to me. And i think the marvel decision to maybe spend extra could bode well for the doc.
And i do so hope that if both bc and rdj share screen anywhere down the line someon makes a sherlock holmes ref.
Bout the AO casting… I get the need to dodge both the orientalist and the tibet questions. And the fem!AO is i think a good addition to the canon. But swinton is so very, very white. The mcu is not lacking white people. Mising an oportunity to add a bit of diversity is such a shame. Specially if theyre actually avoiding tibet for china pandering. Yeoh would have been fanastic tho. In some parallel universe, shes filming aesthetically choreographed magical martial art scenes with blockbuster budgeted CGI zappy bolts right now. Its probably the one where al gore won in 2000. You know, the one where there was no war on terror but the war on carbon. Theyre solar powered or something. Assholes.

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