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Candlejack said on May 23rd, 2016 at 1:14 pm

I don’t think T’Challa taking Stark’s place in the final fight would be an improvement. It’s Cap’s movie, after all; the final fight should have some resonance with him. The sum total of his interactions with T’Challa have amounted to trying to stop the guy from murdering his friend, so another fight where he tries to stop the guy from murdering his friend wouldn’t add anything.

(Also, Black Panther can’t really represent the vigilante-as-anything. He’s not a vigilante. He operates with the full knowledge and support of his government. In fact, he is his government. If anything, until he casts aside vengeance, he represents the abuse of power: using all the resources of his position to track down and murder a man on the basis of a single piece of easily-faked evidence.)

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MGK, the biggest problem with your argument supporting Cap’s viewpoint is that the MCU wants to keep its world being similar to the ‘real’ world but then put super powered beings into it without it changing. It wants to have its cake and to be able to eat it too.

So it wants to be able to blow things up big but then ignore civilian casualties for the most part (as has been pretty much the case up to “Civil War”). It wants characters to be able to act in dramatic ways without having to deal with consequences (e.g. Wanda worked with Ultron and caused casualties around the globe, but because she decided she wanted to be an Avenger, everything’s forgiven).

Also, Wanda might be under a form of house arrest during “Civil War”, but that’s only until the Accords were sorted out. During the movie she ends up in prison for attacking people trying to arrest international terrorist the Winter Soldier. (Sure, he might not be responsible for the bombing in the film, but I’m sure there are a lot of other cases that Bucky is responsible for. Mind control is really the MCU’s excuse for a lot of behaviour the ‘real world’ would still lock people up for.)

Cap’s not right and it’s shown in the opening scenes of Civil War where he chooses to engage a group of armed, hostile mercenaries in the middle of a crowded market. He didn’t have it cleared, or take the fight into less populated areas (aka the Man of Steel Criticism) – he chose that he and his team engage where civilians were in imminent danger. The film is good enough to ignore this.

Wanda then gets blamed for what happened when she actually minimised casualties arising from her commander’s bad decision.

But “Civil War” doesn’t want the audience to consider that Cap may ever make a bad call, because that would undercut the idea that he (and the Avengers) need some kind of oversight.

(I also feel that Cap’s argument is very acceptable to a US / NA audience, but if the People’s Defence Force was blowing holes in New York fighting Hydra before heading back to Beijing, the whole ‘we can trust superpowered beings to manage things themselves’ wouldn’t be nearly as acceptable.)

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“Cap’s not right and it’s shown in the opening scenes of Civil War where he chooses to engage a group of armed, hostile mercenaries in the middle of a crowded market.”

Except that he didn’t choose that. Armed terrorists with active bioweapons chose to take the fight into a crowded market, possibly with intent to release the bioweapon into the populace. There’s not a law-enforcement agency in the world that would have handled a scenario like that any differently than Cap did, and for the same reason–you don’t have time to evacuate, the terrorists aren’t going to let themselves be herded, and inaction isn’t an option because the bioweapon is a clear and present danger. Cap did the job the best anyone could under the circumstances.

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Piranhtachew said on July 23rd, 2016 at 10:23 pm

“…why Wyoming needs its own superteam I don’t know, but they supposedly had one” To save us from Cheney? I keep wondering who’ve been on Rex’s team in all this.

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How law enforcement agencies train their officers for pursuit / chase situations can vary a lot, especially when balancing public safety issues.

The whole “not having time to evaluate” is something that Cap entered into when he found out that his intel was wrong and then he chased a bunch of thieves (they were looking to escape with the bioweapon) into a corner in a crowded market place.

Cap’s best decision underestimated Crossbones, got psyched out by him and then would have gotten a lot of people killed (including himself) if Scarlet Witch didn’t contain the blast. Which then led to a smaller group being killed, for which Scarlet Witch bore all of the blame, rather than her commander.

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