Mike Manley says what’s obviously true – that fanboys complaining about the new all-ages Brave and the Bold cartoon show (which has Jaime Reyes in it! How is that not fantastic?) are products of a skewed direct-market fan environment that caters to their needs over the legion of younger fans just waiting to be introduced to the awesomeness that is Batman.
And commenters unknowingly confirm his point for all to see.
Related Articles
16 users responded in this post
The moment I saw that picture with Jaime in it, I knew I was going to be happy.
Oddly enough, I’m 40. Not a babyman, though. 🙂
I think it is a good idea to target a cartoon to children rather than adult comic book fans. However, in saying that, you don’t have have to belittle and dismiss those adult comic book fans. I understand internet fanboys can be dicks, but this wasn’t even in response, it was a pre-emptive strike. I don’t think the replies there were even that bad.
I’m always amused when someone complains publicly about the mean things an internet person said on some message board. What, exactly, did they expect? No, seriously, what?
I Like this one:
“Hey, Mike! Thanks a lot for insulting the very fans – the ADULTS – who WERE going help RAISE your ratings by watching your TV show! We’re also the ones who give our kids their MONEY to buy your stupid toys. Not anymore, thanks to your pathetic insults!”
Because “Dora The Explorer” has experienced great ratings because of it’s huge adult fan base.
Parents don’t care if a cartoon is adult oriented. They care about two things: The kids like it, and it doesn’t drive the adults insane with it’s inanity. That’s it. If you hit those two critical points, then you’ve sold a lunchbox.
I’m so excited about animated Jamie.
And I want to see which voice cast members they’re bringing in from previous incarnations.
And… I just like cartoons. I mean, sure, it is great when they’re more ‘adult’ but seriously…
As a fan of Static Shock, I’m definitely looking forward to seeing Jaime on TV. However, all that Manley’s doing here is illustrating the other side of the “either/or” argument regarding Bat-interpretations. Couldn’t he have undercut the same criticisms a lot more tactfully by explaining this show as the equivalent of the kid-oriented books that DC already publishes?
I have absolutely no problem with B&B being a kids-oriented show, and books like Teeny Titans and SuperFriends can only be good things in a marketplace that’s going rapidly gray(I’m a hardcore superhero comics fan and I’m slipping steadily into my middle thirties). Simply put, superhero books should be kid-friendly and accessible to not just the 30-plus crowd but the kids as well.
Maybe it’s just me from the cheap seats, but it seems to me that a lot of comics fans cleave to an ‘all or nothing’ mentality when it comes to their own internal vision of a specific property. I’m all for consistency in detail in my comics (I love books like Who’s Who or The Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe), but not at the expense of story or, even more importantly, fun.
I think our love of the classic stories and characters we grew up with gave us an imbalanced sense of propriety when we came of age. It’s like the utter bile and hatred that’s just so hip and trendy when it comes to the first three Star Wars films. Like ’em, dislike ’em, outright loath them, they were George Lucas’s movies. And while I’ve met some Star Wars fans of my generation that completely and utterly despise episodes I-III, oddly enough I haven’t seen many disgruntled 5-12 year-olds. I haven’t heard about the kid riots. No, it’s always the older fans who seem to cross their arms, pout, and whine about how the prequels sucked, how it was all wrong, how this should’ve been different and that should have been different and on and on into infinity.
Part of the fun of being into pop culture entertainment, be it anime, be it comics, be it Star Wars, is the sense that it’s ‘ours’. That we’re part of an exclusive group, that we know the secret password, that we’re the ones with the magic wardrobe that leads beyond the world of the banal into the fantastic. We enjoy what we like because it’s what -we- like, it’s ours, it’s what we got when we were young and it’s what captivated us and transported us. The downside of course is that sense of entitlement can come back to bite us in the ass. It’s ‘ours’, so of course ‘we’ know what’s best for it, not silly people like the creators or a given creative team and certainly not children, who wouldn’t begin to appreciate the intricacies of our entertainment. So like Smaug we hoard our treasures and keep the kiddies away from our childhood treasures because juevenilles like them could never understand or love these things like ‘we’ do.
This pleases the gods of the Iron-Y methinks.
Stacy
Maybe Dora the Explorer isn’t a show that got a lot of adult boost, but something like those shows that had Bruce Timm’s hand in them did. They seemed like shows that would get adults and teens and maybe kids as young as 10 watching. I’m young enough that I was a wee lad without a double digit age when Batman: the Animated Series came out. When Justice League came out, I was old and could enjoy it. I think kids could too.
I’m no Star Wars fan, and I didn’t like the prequels. Saying “it’s a kids movie,” isn’t like some magic wand anymore than “it’s for adults” is a magic wand that makes things okay when Major Misogyny dismembers women in graphic scenes too gruesome for an unrated version of Hostel or Saw. The phoning it in was strong in the acting in the prequels. The original trilogy was pretty bad for that too.
I agree with the overall point Stacy’s making, but it seems it like it goes too far to the point that we can’t say anything bad about anything, otherwise we’re being bitter bee babymen.
Hm. . .sorry if I came across a little too strident there. To clarify, we can certainly enjoy what we enjoy and comment (constructively) on things we might not agree with, but ultimately The Brave & The Bold doesn’t contradict what came before in the form of Batman: The Animated Series or even The Batman. Those shows exist and will have their fans, and just because there’s a new version of the character out there doesn’t invalidate or supplant all that came before. Nobody’s going to come along all Farenheit 451 and slag your DVD copies(or at least I’d hope not).
It’s also hard to come down one way or the other when the finished product hasn’t hit the screen and had a chance to be looked at. I -hated- the look of Legion of Super Heroes when I first saw it promoted, but after giving an episode a chance I quickly got hooked. Same could well be true of TB&TB(JaimeBeetle!).
In my opinion there’s as much room for ‘Demon in a Bottle’ Iron Man as there is ‘Marvel Adventures’ Iron Man. We just need to learn to be a bit more open-minded and a bit less territorial as fandom in general when it comes to interpretation of our golden idols.
Though Hanley probably could have phrased what he said a smidge more diplomatically, in my opinion.
But that’s me, as I said, from the cheap seats.
Stacy
I don’t mind all-ages stuff (indeed, it should be encouraged), but comments like saying all comics have sucked since the 80s just mark Manley as a grouch who’s just as nostaglic as other fans, just for a different era.
I’ll check out any episode featuring Jaime.
IMO Manley came off as a bit of a jerk. I can understand his P.O.V. but I don’t think there has to be an “all or nothing” approach to comics/comics content on EITHER side. There should most definitely be content made for and available to kids of all ages- which is what this new show is doing. Sometimes those shows end up transcending their audience and appeals to all ages (As the Timm DCAU toons did, and I believe the new Spectacular Spidey as well) other times they don’t. (Teen Titans- I could never get into it as an adult but I think it’s a great show for kids.) This one looks like it’s content will be aimed a little younger than even The Batman was. That’s cool. I may not personally want to watch it, but I think it’s great for kids. On the other side I don’t think all animation should be just for kids, which is why I’m glad Timm and Co. are still doing their teen-adult aimed direct to DVD DCAU movies. There are things you can do with animation that you just can’t pull off with live action and make it work, and it’s nice to be able to see the characters I love on screen in a way that I can identify and enjoy. Same with comics. Comics are a valid storytelling medium and aren’t “just for kids”. There’s room in the industry for everyone.
I wish the best for Manley’s kiddie project, but I will have absolutely no problem laughing in his face the moment it fails.
Besides, as absolutely stupid as this Batman is going to have to be in order to capture the “cute and cuddly” kiddie market, I’m sure it will be lampooned and satirized mercilessly on youtube and 4chan (mostly by the same kids who are already swearing like sailors on the playground that the show is marketed to).
There are no exceptions to Rule 34
…wait, that animated pic I saw a few days back was REAL?
Wow, comic-based cartoons are looking up now. First Spectacular Spider-Man, now animated Blue Beetle.
That said, the worst thing to happen to comics is most often the fans, depressingly enough.
What’s the George Carlin joke? “think of how dumb the average person is … then realize, half the people are stupider than that.” Of course there are going to be idiots in a comment thread online. That’s pretty much the internet’s job. So I’m not sure what the point here is.
If you haven’t, read Killing Monsters ( http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Monsters-Children-Make-Believe-Violence/dp/0465036961/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207705507&sr=8-1 ). Accept that “child-friendly” cartoons aren’t actually “child-friendly,” they’re “adults(who have children)-friendly.”
The new Blue Beetle is awesome. B:TAS is awesome. Can’t we all just get along?