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mygif

Every time you do one of these, I think I want you to write the book even more.

Of couse, that’s coupled with me basically giving up on the Shooter run because it’s entirely lost its ability to be engaging in any way, instead seeming to be a dull, workmanlike, Avengers: Disassembled-esque ‘Lightning Lad’s worst day evar’ kind of story.

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mygif

I think this is excellent. I hated “Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes” as an idea. You’ve convinced me otherwise. Kara doesn’t fit in on Earth, that’s Kal-el’s gig. And Superman can’t have a sidekick, it just doesn’t work. It makes sense for a character that could be great, who is overshadowed by her (younger) cousin who’s already established “dominance” on Earth as the go-to Kryptonian to save the day, to go to the future and continue the legacy and honor of her family.

It would be great to see the Legion established as a club of super kids and really not have a purpose or direction; just a bunch of powerful punk teenagers thinking they are making a difference. If Kara enters early it could change the whole tone and be that turning point that makes them Heroes. The House of El v. Luthor, Brainiac 5 relationship, and the death upon return to our time ideas just add so much more to her and the Legion.

You need to write comics. You really do.

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ladypeyton said on July 9th, 2008 at 10:05 am

I’m one of those heathens who thinks Supergirl should never have been resurrected after Crisis and I wasn’t very happy with her last encounter with the Legion but I like your idea of her knowing her the circumstances surrounding her death.

Even though my favorite Legion stories don’t include either Superboy or Supergirl I think I’d like to read your take on her in the group.

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mygif

Give her “less than a year after returning home” rather than a day, and I’m sold — a day’s too little, she’ll know too well what’s coming. Give her a year to make going back harder (she can’t just say goodbye, puff up her courage and walk off to certain doom, she has to puff up her courage and KEEP IT PUFFED UP for months as her doom lurks, waiting) and, when she finally does go back, let someone write comics about a Supergirl who’s been a leader, an inspiration, and a Hero, and has come back to face her inevitable, but yet-unknown, death.

And, of course, she can’t know this all on arrival in the future — otherwise the future is a refuge, a hiding-place. She has to learn it right as an attempt to return home fails (the time window defocuses, and she/the whole Legion see/s her funeral; B5 is sure the offset “could be as short as a day, but no longer than a year). If they know right off, it taints her whole stint with cowardice.

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mygif

Not sure if you’re aware of this, but Justice League Unlimited did a version of this where Brainiac 5 and Bouncing Boy grab Supergirl, Green Lantern and Green Arrow to help when the Fatal Five takes control of most of the League (“Far From Home”)

Supergirl elects to stay in the 30th century and I think would have made a better Legion show than the one produced.

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mygif

Sold.

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mygif

This might be your best reason yet.

Of course, since you have such epic, dramatic, and consistent ideas for the Legion, DC wouldn’t even let you get close to it.

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mygif

I think you’re absolutely right about Supergirl. In fact, I think there are a few other characters who could be singled out for similar treatment, and that DC may actually be doing this: Bart Allen and Superboy-Prime. (My choice for yet another one: Aqualad.)

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mygif

I’m still waiting for the Supergirl /slash.
No? Wrong audience? *ow!* That tomatoe had a rock in it!

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Rob Brown said on July 9th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

@ BSD: Good point.

As for the rest, Supergirl + The Legion = Win/Win.

I really was sad to see her go at the end of Bedard’s run.

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mygif

But MGK, if we know that Supergirl is going to die after she returns to her own time, doesn’t that mean that she’s going to remain fine as long as she’s in the 31st Century? We’ll know that Mano didn’t disintegrate her in that cliffhanger panel because she has to go back to her normal time and die there. I grok the concept that you’re changing the dramatic conflict around the character’s safety from what will happen in the current story to what will happen in a future story, but it still suffers from there being a difficulty taking her current peril seriously.

But I do want to be a fly on the wall when you pitch “Let me have Supergirl and then, when I’m done, she’ll be dead.”

By the way, I know you dealt with the Fatal Five back in Reason #15, but “Mano and the Persuader Are Serious Threats, Dammit” is worthly of your consideration.

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mygif

It’s not exactly the same but it’s similar to Marv Wolfman’s original idea on how to bring back Barry Allen after the first Crisis and make him relevant in the new DCU. I sort of liked it then and I like it in this case, as well.

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mygif

Troy: But MGK, if we know that Supergirl is going to die after she returns to her own time, doesn’t that mean that she’s going to remain fine as long as she’s in the 31st Century?

Not necessarily. I’m not giving away the farm, here, and actually the point you describe is the basis of a done-in-one story I had an idea for when I had the original “Supergirl dies” idea.

BSD: If they know right off, it taints her whole stint with cowardice.

Not if she doesn’t know how to get back. It’s the same problem as her first stint in the 31st century; Kryptonians can survive unprotected time travel, but it fuzzes up her brain a bit so she can’t remember exactly whence she came from originally (knowledge which is vital to getting her back).

Now, the last time this happened, Brainiac Five figured out easily enough where she was from, chronally speaking, so sending her back was a snap for him. You think he’s going to be so eager to find out (or, more importantly, admit finding out) her temporal destination when he knows it carries a death sentence?

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mygif

Now, the last time this happened, Brainiac Five figured out easily enough where she was from, chronally speaking, so sending her back was a snap for him. You think he’s going to be so eager to find out (or, more importantly, admit finding out) her temporal destination when he knows it carries a death sentence?

That depends. Dumbledore wasn’t so moral that he had trouble sending Harry Potter to his death, because it was for the greater good, for instance. Various X-men regularly get tossed into suicide missions that their psychic / pre-cognitive buddies are well aware won’t end well.

Depending on how serious the issue is, Brainiac Five might send her on her way without even giving her the head’s up, because telling her she’s going to die could adversely affect the space-time continuum in the sort of way that still gets her killed but fails to actually stop the calamitous event. If you want to get really wonky, B5 might go the extra mile of scrubbing his own memory and putting a block on checking that sort of thing out because his actions could affect her in a way that would result in her dieing for nothing.

It really just depends on the stacks at hand. And the problem with that whole tra-la-la is that you have to start co-ordinating with other comic book guys to turn Super Girl into a serious lynch pin in a major event. Keeping her storyline strictly within The Legion comics leaves people asking “How could this be so dire that she saves the world while every other comic hero barely bats an eye?” Unless you just plan on bringing her back a few comics down the line, in which case she goes back to being just another hero who happens to get waxed and rez’d on a semi-regular basis.

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mygif

And the problem with that whole tra-la-la is that you have to start co-ordinating with other comic book guys to turn Super Girl into a serious lynch pin in a major event.

Pah. It could be a three-issue arc in JLA. :)

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mygif

As far as I’m concerned, Matrix is Supergirl and this “Kara” you speak of is a bad Silver Age flashback dream. (Or, for that matter, a bad flashback to Superman/Aliens.) Krypto, too. (Where does Krypto fall on the Rex scale, hmm?)

Opening up the door of “He’s not really the last survivor of Krypton” takes away a bit from Superman’s character, IMHO, and the more often that door gets opened, the more it takes away, leaving us with, as PS238 put it, “Flight+Strength Superhero #85”.

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mygif

She arrives in the future – once again – by accident. And while she’s there, she learns something: less than a day after her return to the past, she’ll die. In a manner befitting a superhero, saving an entire galaxy, to be sure. But she’ll die, you can be sure of that. She can’t stay in the future forever – sooner or later the timestream will start to stress and fracture if she doesn’t go fulfill her destiny. She is marked.

So while she’s in the future, she decides to help as many people as possible. That’s what a superhero does, and Supergirl is a superhero – and in the future, she’ll finally get the chance to be a legendary one.

I approve of the Supergirl in the Legion bit, but I don’t think this bit will work, not in a serial medium. Writing your own characters, yeah, you can do that sort of foreshadowing because you know what story you are going to tell and no one is going to pick up after you, but in a series like this a) it’s annoying (“don’t actually care about this character because she’s temporary”) b) it binds your successors to either a plot they may not want or never carrying through your big plot point and c) if the character recreation is successful, you’ve just wasted a good character.

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mygif

Well, I’m not convinced that Supergirl needs this idea to be relevant in the DCU; what she needs is a competent, stable writing team that has a good idea what they want to do with the character, nothing more. The fact that she hasn’t had that for even one issue since her return to the DCU is more a reflection of the current mess that is the DC editorial offices than a reflection of a flaw in the character. (Although I think the relaunched Supergirl does have some flaws in the character; I actually covered all this in my storytelling engines entry on Supergirl, if you don’t mind the shameless plug.)

I’m also not sure on the whole, “She’ll die the day she goes back, and her not going back stresses the timelines” angle. That sets up a false status quo, a situation that the reader is going to continually expect you, the writer to resolve. Which is a problem, since the whole reason you’re bringing Supergirl into the future is that you want her to be a supporting character for a good long while. When the reader is constantly expecting the other shoe to drop, that’s a problem, especially since you can’t actually kill off Supergirl. (No, you can’t. Look, if you kill off Supergirl, we’ll just have to have her resurrected in another five to ten years, and then deal with five to ten more years of getting the character to work properly again. How long was the DCU actually without a Supergirl once they killed off the original in ‘Crisis’? Five years? Less? Supergirl is beloved, iconic, and famous. She can’t permanently die. That’s just the way it is.)

But I agree completely with the general premise that Supergirl works very well as a Legion member (let’s face it, her main love interest has always been Braniac 5, that’s a good argument for putting her in the Legion right there) and I think you’re right to put her in there. I merely quibble over details.

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Andrew W. said on July 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

It’s not just enough for a comic to have a competent, stable writing team, John S. Lots of comics have, and everytime they get canned there’s always fans bemoaning how they can’t have nice things when just yesterday they called the writers hacks of sub-Jeph Loeb talent.

I’m not sold on the “if she goes back, she’ll die.” angle either. Isn’t it enough to have her realize she can do more good in the future than in the past? The past is full of superheroes, but in the grim darkness of the far future there’s just the Legion of Superheroes for untold worlds and untold threats. In the past, she’s generic fly-brick who gets the distinction of wearing a red ‘S’ and she’s not really needed. In the future, she’s Supergirl and she can be the leader Superman is iconically (if not in practice). In the past, if the JSA fails, you call the JLA, then dozens of other teams before you get the non-team players to chip in. In the future, there’s the Legion. They’re it. The first, last, and only.

Course, I guess the flaw there is that the hardcores would see it as vainglorious – choosing to be big time in the future over being small time in the past.

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mygif

I actually like the current story line in Supergirl, with her seeing herself as better than humanity, but genuinely wanting to help raise humanity up to her level and having the naivity of a teenager to believe that she can and should do that no matter what others say. It’s basically the preInfinite Crisis Batman with a bit more cheerfulness and naivity and a lot less body armor.

I can see why people wouldn’t like that version of the character (there’s a lot of potential Super villain in that description and it risks running smack into the Reed Richards is useless trope), and it obviously doesn’t fit with some of her earlier characterization.

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CapnAndy said on July 9th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

I agree that the “Supergirl goes back… TO HER DEATH!” angle is a non-starter. I balked hard reading here, I’d balk harder reading it in the comic, and I’d find myself hoping for someone to pull the old “Supergirl’s dead, go to print with that issue… she’s alive? And we already printed newspapers saying otherwise? Well, hope that doesn’t end up in the historical record in 1000 years” dodge. And they’d pull it too, or something even triter. No killing Supergirl. Bad MGK.

Also I take issue with the idea that there’s no place for Supergirl in the DCU proper. Her place is at Superman’s side, alongside Superboy (Connor Kent AND Chris Kent, thank you very much), alongside Krypto, alongside Steel, and so on, and so forth.

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mygif

It’s a solid take on giving Supergirl a much-needed relevancy boost, I’ll give you that. And in all honesty I do think she worked better in the 31st century than she ever did in the current DCU. A long (albeit forced) sojourn through the 31st century might be the best thing for her.

I do tend to agree that the notion of ‘returning her to the past the day she’ll die’ angle does seem to imply an inverse status-quo a la the classic Legion’s Superboy. What could be more apt would be the notion of her not necessarily being from the same ‘past’ as the Legion’s current timeline, giving Brainiac 5 a much harder time pinpointing her location in the space-time continuum. She’s Supergirl, Kara Zor-El and all that, but is she the Supergirl of the Legion’s reality? Given the amount of times the multiverse has shifted around them, to say nothing of the manipulations of beings such as the Time Trapper, I think it’s more than possible for Brainy to have ample problems not only A) finding her temporal point of origin and B) ensuring that Kara is even from the Legion’s timeline entirely. After all the historical records clearly state Supergirl left Earth before the Great Catastrophe of the mid twenty-first century. . .right?

Hmm. . .this notion gives me an idea of my own that I might persue in my lj. ‘Why I Should Write A Storyline For MGK’S Legion’ or the like.

Stacy

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mygif

When the reader is constantly expecting the other shoe to drop, that’s a problem, especially since you can’t actually kill off Supergirl. (No, you can’t. Look, if you kill off Supergirl, we’ll just have to have her resurrected in another five to ten years, and then deal with five to ten more years of getting the character to work properly again. How long was the DCU actually without a Supergirl once they killed off the original in ‘Crisis’? Five years? Less? Supergirl is beloved, iconic, and famous. She can’t permanently die. That’s just the way it is.)

That’s a better way of what I was trying to get across. You can kill Supergirl, at least for a little while, but unless you make it big, it’s just going to be trivial. When they killed Hal Jordan, it was a big deal. The Doomsday-Kills-Superman plot was a staggering affair, both in his eventual death and his inevitable resurrection. Killing Supergirl would need a similar song-and-dance affair or people wouldn’t really buy it and would just sit on their hands until she pops back up as a Legion member again or in some other book down the line.

Now, you can physically kill Supergirl without actually killing the character. You can turn her into a ghost or trap her in the Phantom Zone or leave behind a clone or do whatever song and dance you like. But the real question you have to ask when you “kill” a character is if and how you want to write her out of the story. Banishing her to the 9th Dimension alongside Mxyzptlk is functionally equivalent to killing her, if she just stops appearing in story arcs for the next five years. Throwing her in a vat of Kryptonite jell-o or vaporizing her with Darkseid’s eye rays can kill her, but she can still float around as a ghost or a memory or a VR simulation and be considered very much “alive” for storyboard purposes for ages to come.

So saying “Go back to the present and you’ll die by the end of the day” can mean a lot of things depending on how you write it. But either way, you’re effectively claiming that at some point in time you plan on removing her from the Legion story arc. Your fans’ approval will hinge on how that happens. The question you have to ask is whether you want Supergirl to go away. Given that this entire article seems centered around saving the character of Supergirl from abuse at the hands of an unloving comic core, “killing” her in whatever form seems somewhat counter-intuitive, unless you just want to give the cute Kryptonian one final run before you put her to bed.

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Sofa King said on July 9th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

I don’t see why there needs to be a Supergirl in the first place, honestly. What does she bring to the table besides “What if Superman was a grrrrrl” and the weird Krypto-incest angle (you know it’s been thought of). Explain to me why she even needs to exist. I’m really curious.

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mygif

I don’t see why there needs to be a Supergirl in the first place, honestly. What does she bring to the table besides “What if Superman was a grrrrrl” and the weird Krypto-incest angle (you know it’s been thought of). Explain to me why she even needs to exist. I’m really curious.

Other than the fact that boobs sell comic books? I mean, the same question could be asked of any number of B-list superheroes.

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mygif

So the big endgame here is another woman in the refrigerator? Seriously?

Are you sure you don’t want to throw in a rape for good measure? Maybe a “that bitch be WOMB CRAZY” moment or two?

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Aulayan said on July 9th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

Whoa. Dan.

A woman dying in a comic is not immediately Woman in the Refrigerator.

Woman in the Refrigerator means someone whose death is used only for the impact on the male character. Ala Alex in Kyle-Era GL.

MGK’s idea regarding Supergirl dying a HEROIC Death when she returns to the present would be the same as if it was SuperMAN. Heroic. Not Refrigerator.

If we’ve gotten to the point where that is immediately all that’s thought of when a woman dies in a comic, that line has, much like “Jump the shark”, jumped the shark.

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mygif

What the Legion really needs is Batman, and no one wants to bring back Brane Taylor, the 31st century Batman. He predates the Legion by seven years or so, would have thought someone would have had him running around dealing with the stuff that goes below the Legions radar.

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mygif

What the Legion really needs is Batman, and no one wants to bring back Brane Taylor, the 31st century Batman. He predates the Legion by seven years or so, would have thought someone would have had him running around dealing with the stuff that goes below the Legions radar.

Wait, what?

Stacy

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mygif

31st century batman, showed up in 1951, hasn’t been in anything since

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Clayton said on July 9th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

[i]So the big endgame here is another woman in the refrigerator? Seriously?

Are you sure you don’t want to throw in a rape for good measure? Maybe a “that bitch be WOMB CRAZY” moment or two?[/i]

So… you’re like a crazy person?

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Andrew W. said on July 9th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

If we’ve gotten to the point where that is immediately all that’s thought of when a woman dies in a comic, that line has, much like “Jump the shark”, jumped the shark.

It’s not dan’s fault, though. Feminist blogs setting up their XY only sanctums on the internet and their periodic invasions into other areas of comic readership have conditioned male readers to assume that even displacing a hair on a woman’s head is woman in the fridge.

Maria Hill? Woman in refridgerator.

Boom Boom in Nextwave? Woman in refridgerator.

Loki being a woman now? Woman in refridgerator.

Squirrel Girl beating Dr. Doom? Woman in refridgerator.

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mygif

I’m not sure I’m in the group that wants comics that matter. ABout the only time I like them is when they’re trying to fix other comics that matter, such as Avengers Forever dealing with the Crossing and other books.

I prefer books that admit they don’t matter. I like consistency within books, meaning if the sky is suddenly purple and someone who was dead is suddenly alive I’m fine with it. As long as there is a good reason for it.

As for your idea, I wouldn’t go through with the death. I’d have her go back and it turns out whatever supposedly killed her actually just blew her right back to the future.

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mygif

What the Legion really needs is Batman, and no one wants to bring back Brane Taylor, the 31st century Batman. He predates the Legion by seven years or so, would have thought someone would have had him running around dealing with the stuff that goes below the Legions radar.

Well, I want to bring him back! Now that I know who he is!

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mygif

Matthew: Brane Taylor is involved in at least one of the reasons I’ve already listed. (And not the one you think, either.)

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mygif

I think the “oh you’re just using this as a means to shoehorn Supergirl into a refrigerator” line is pretty solid proof that you should be allowed to do this. Cause as has been mucho stated, wasn’t Supergirl’s introduction in the first place as an utterly token grrly Superman, and wasn’t her CoIE death a total frikkin’ refrigerator death? Your proposal allows for an indepth martyrdom storyline for a female character WITHOUT marginalising her to “pretty boobs then dead”.

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mygif

MGK: Brane Taylor is involved in at least one of the reasons I’ve already listed. (And not the one you think, either.)

Hmm… well, you DID mention the notion of a pair of traitors to the Legion, one willing and one unwilling, and there is something that grabs me about Batman’s “descendant” betraying Superman’s “descendants”…

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mygif

Hehe. Just in case we completely lose focus, I’d like to reiterate that Supergirl in the Legion is a good idea, and if MGK penned the comic, I’d go in for a subscription.

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mygif

I just skimmed through you original WISWtL (looking for Brane Taylor) and this is what you had to say:

I could go for another thirty. Seriously. It would be easy. Most of what I’ve outlined here thus far is either character notes or the elements of the first two years’ worth of stories. I haven’t mentioned, for instance:

– Star Boy’s new(ish) powers
– the prophecy of Supergirl’s last battle
– Anti-Lad and the 75th Century’s League of Super-Sentients
– the deadly mystery of the Infinite Girl
– Ultra Boy’s murder trial
– the significant ticks of the Great Galactic Clock
– what those rascally Khunds are doing during all of this
– the cosmic retreat of Bgtzl

so far i only see number 2 has been covered now. the rest are intriguing. you cannot stop this until you’ve covered the rest of these teasers!!

now about this Brane Taylor fellow, the obvious Batman references are #35 (W.A.Y.N.-3) and #12 (the Bat-pire). So if that’s not it, i think (like Matthew E said) #6 (traitor) is a good pick, but also #27 (History is a Gun) is a good part of that story. and 33 (Keeper of Truths) and 32 (the Sandymen) are connected to the past, they might play a part.

great great great stuff MGK.

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mygif

(while i’m at it…)

You know what I hate about the legion? EVERYONE isn’t satisfied. “I want the original back!” “I want the original back, before Karate Kid died!” “Where’s Wildfire and Dawnstar???” “The reboot was horrible!” “I hate Kinetix!” “Bring back Gates!” “Brainiac 5 is a jerk in the 3-boot!” “Everything sucks without Superboy!” “Why’d they cancel the reboot??”

Fans of the Legion are so divided and so pissy, that it makes me not want to read it anymore. I check out Legion message boards now and then, and it’s just so frustrating that I don’t want to be a fan. I grew up with the Reboot, and for that, I’m looked down upon by many legion fans. Because Kinetix and Snake!Projectra and matching uniforms and Jeff Moy all suck ass, i have no taste. Because I don’t know the glories of the orgasmic joy of the silver age, everything i say is wrong! (I’m 25, i got into comics in the 90s, be grateful i survived that period…).

Older Legion fans just want their Legion back, thinking it’s the only Legion. Newer Legion fans won’t say anything because we get beaten down verbally for voicing our opinions. It’s too hostile of a fandom for me, so I gave up.

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mygif

It’s not just the LSH, though. You’ve done an admirable job of describing the fandom for just about any comic that’s run more than a couple of years. Remember how bitter and angry the HEAT folks were over the death of a character who never had a personality until he became the Spectre? Or the people who complained about Vic Sage’s death even though it was handled better than 95% of character deaths in comic history?

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mygif

For what it’s worth, I have never, ever understood the vocal hatred for Sensor-as-a-snake (which I thought was wonderfully innovative while still keeping a solid thematic tie to the original character). Or Monstress, who for some reason is loathed by many Legion fans for reasons that totally escape me.

Really, the worst thing you can say about the reboot-era Legion is that after the 20th century jaunt was resolved, the title kind of lost focus for a while until Abnett and Lanning took over. And even then, they weren’t particularly bad comics.

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mygif

Really, my only complaint about the Legion reboots is that they seem to have become chronic; it makes it difficult to get into the series, knowing there are two or three periods where the whole story just stops and starts over. I’ve read the trades of the current Legion and the Showcases of the classic Legion and I liked ’em both…but it would be nice if they hadn’t kept blowing the whole thing up and starting over.

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mygif

Older Legion fans just want their Legion back, thinking it’s the only Legion. Newer Legion fans won’t say anything because we get beaten down verbally for voicing our opinions. It’s too hostile of a fandom for me, so I gave up.

Kyle, don’t give up. We aren’t all like that. I’m an older Legion fan myself, and I’ve got a whole blog (click on my name) dedicated to the notion that there’s something to appreciate in every version of the Legion. Nobody gets beaten down. There’s never been a better time to be a Legion fan than right now, and it’s never too late to start, or start over.

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mygif

To go back to the earlier question as to why Supergirl even exists, she was created back when … wait for it … young girls read comics and DC wanted a hero in the “super” stable this audience could relate to. By all accounts, it was successful given Supergirl’s long run in Action Comics, 80 oage giants and generally prominent role in the Superman Family.

The problems arose when the superhero base narrowed and the idea of a super-hero who wasn’t created for adolescent – and older – males became foreign to the industry. Hence, Kara Zor-El resurrected as an angsty sexpot.

It’s the same problem Mary Marvel currently faces in the mainstream DCU, which is why I believe Johnny DC or a Marvel Adventures-style title is a better place for both characters.

I do agree with MightyGodKing, however, that a modern-day Supergirl works best in the Legion of Super-Heroes. We liked Mark Waid’s take on the concept, and think MGK’s would be just as rockin.

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[…] that aura of Importance through storyline implications on its shared universe (although there are ways to do that over the long term), you need to find another way to do […]

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Thelastavenger said on February 4th, 2010 at 4:58 am

heres one way mgk could take this story: supergirl returns from the 31st century and “dies” saving the galaxy becoming a hero to the 21st century. Only she doesnt die but is instead sent back to the Legion of Super-Heroes time to live out the rest of her life.This way she becomes relevant to the 21st century DCU(replacing Barry Allen as a fallen hero) and allowing her to remain a good character with the Legion without the whole “she’ll be fine till she returns to her own time” that weakens any Legion story dealing with superBOY and superGIRL
PS Brane Taylor could be behind The Emipire Of the D(its misnamed so noone would suspect 31st cenurty Batman) or He is the reluctant traitor to the Legion and the member who dies.

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[…] and the Bold. (Also, I note that they have started teasing Supergirl’s death, so to everybody who said it wasn’t possible in the comments here, […]

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