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mygif

So you’re counting the Secret Defenders as regular Defenders? Well, by that measure, muther-frakkin’ Thanos is a Defender.

Strange and Deadpool meet recently in Cable and Deadpool #47-49. Which happens after his stint in Secret Defenders, though I don’t believe it’s mentioned in C&DP.

To be clear, Deadpool was a part of the Dr. Druid-led Secret Defenders (along with Luke Cage), and I don’t think Strange had any interaction with him.

Yes, I own the entire run of Secret Defenders. It actually isn’t as bad as its reputation.

I’m sure I’ll lose all my important nerd street cred here, but why is Namor just Black Adam with swim trunks and funny ankles?

DUDE!!! NOT COOL!!!

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mygif

If I wanted to see “Some character is forced to put up with Deadpool for an entire story,” couldn’t I just read any of the zillion existing Deadpool projects playing off of the Wolverine movie? At last count, in 2009 Deadpool is co-starring in stories with the Thunderbolts, Hawkeye/Bullseye, Spider-Man, and the Punisher. I’m pretty sure he’s appearing in that Cable/X-Force crossover too. How is Deadpool/Strange more appealing than Deadpool/anybody else?

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mygif

. Time is, after all, only an illusion sentient beings create in order to keep from experiencing everything at once, and possibly exploding in the process….So he doesn’t try to determine specific outcomes, because that would take multiple castings of a very complex temporal rite and he doesn’t have that kind of time.

He doesn’t have enough of an illusion? Then he should just hallucinate some more. Get some LSD or something.

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Cookie McCool said on April 23rd, 2009 at 7:49 pm

Ok, fine. Black Adam with swim trunks, funny ankles, and the extremely enviable ability to breathe underwater. Or, I guess why is Black Adam just a dryback Namor, if that makes you feel better?

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Christian said on April 23rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

Grant Morrison pulled the ‘Zatanna kinda knows she’s in a comic book’ really well in Seven Soldiers of Victory… doing something like that might be cool

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mygif

Real Defenders fans know it’s all about the second-stringers who end up hanging out after the Big Four disperse, not the Big Four themselves.
Every revival attempt that insists on the primacy of the Big Four has sucked, except for the Giffen-Dematteis one, but that was only due to the comedy approach.
(Busiek-Larson rocked, incidentally; I know a number of people hated it, but they were stupid and wrong. That one totally captured the essence of what made the Defenders a great book in its heyday.)

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mygif

Right. Looks like I got a job to do.

First: Namor came before Black Adam. By a fair deal. And if you mean Black Adam as anti-hero rather than mustache twirling one off villain, he came decades before him. Black Adam is the rip off.

Secondly: Namor has an awesome catchphrase. “Imperious Rex!”.

Thirdly: Namor being an asshole tends to be played for fun and humor, rather than drama.

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Cookie McCool said on April 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm

Fine. But they both need a better hairstyle, and the ankle thing is just dumb, AND I’ve never seen any legitimate reason why Black Adam needs pointy ears (I could maybe believe that pointy ears help Namor swim very slightly better, but I feel that he owes me for that suspension of disbelief).

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mygif

Huge, HUGE Defenders fan. Big, BIG Deadpool fan. Everything about this is perfection.

Also, have you considered tackling a Deadpool book (or at least a mini)? Theoretically speaking, of course.

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mygif

Why is Namor a Defender anyway? I mean Strange, Hulk and Silver are all in a power league of their own on their respective axes. But Namor? Why?

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(reads wikipedia) Really? Author fiat? What a downer.

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Doctor Hal said on April 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 pm

Why do I get the feeling that one day, Stephen Strange goes to a very nice restaurant, sits down to enjoy a very nice meal, looks up and sees Deadpool.

He looks to his left and all the people sitting there are wearing Deadpool mask, to his right more Deadpool’s. Each speaking in various wacky, cancer laden tones one single word over and over again.

“Chimichanga”

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Bryce (Mouser) said on April 23rd, 2009 at 10:48 pm

I just had this image of Dr. Strange summoning those he need to save the world from across space and time and getting a Deadpool from the past, present, and future and them all trying to kill each other. Of course, the PAST dead pool would be from BEFORE he got into the Weapon X program…

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mygif

Oh, and since the X-Men Origins: Wolverine movie has come up; judging by the tone of the comments toward Deadpool and so in his favor, I have a feeling that, unless major re-cuts were done (and by major re-cut, I pretty much mean reshooting the entire third act), a lot of people are going to really, really pissed next weekend. I mentioned I don’t know much of Deadpool, and even I was dissatisfied by what they did with and to the character.

And thanks, Lister Sage, for the pointers. I’m rather looking forward to exploring this.

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mygif

Namor actually can successfully hold his own with the Hulk in a punch-out, especially underwater.

Combine that with flight, resilience, and an assortment of ridiculous one or two time powers a la Silver Age Superman, and he’s in a higher weight class than most of the MU. Maybe even barely in rest of the original Defender’s range.

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mygif

To be clear, Deadpool was a part of the Dr. Druid-led Secret Defenders (along with Luke Cage), and I don’t think Strange had any interaction with him.

Which makes it EVEN BETTER.

“You were never a Defender!”
“Sure I was! There was this fat guy in red spandex, said I was a Defender…”
“Doctor Druid is dead!”
“Well, I didn’t kill him. Maybe he had a heart attack. Because he was a fatty. Did I mention the belly?”

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mygif

Yeah… good times. Technically, Druid hired him (mercenary, remember, and this was well before DP’s ‘trying-to-be-a-hero’ phase) and Luke Cage (back when he was, you know, a hero for hire) to buy time until the REAL Secret Defenders showed up.

But if ‘Pool can claim to be an X-Man (with old school Marvel Girl outfit), then surely he has a stake on being a Defender.

Boy, Druid. How did he die anyway? Didn’t Ellis do something nasty to him?

Say MGK, do you prefer the Deadpool who’s a mile-a-minute talker with a skewed outlook on life, or the one who’s literally too insane to know what reality is? In other words, the Kelly version, the Way version, or something in between (Nicezia)?

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Say MGK, do you prefer the Deadpool who’s a mile-a-minute talker with a skewed outlook on life, or the one who’s literally too insane to know what reality is? In other words, the Kelly version, the Way version, or something in between (Nicezia)?

Something in between. The Way version makes the Kelly version more tragic.

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mygif

Random thoughts:

So I guess this shows where you stand on the Secret Defenders being “real” defenders. Maybe that means we’ll get Nomad back (even if it’s only as part of the dead team.

It’d be kind of fun to play with expectations even more by getting incarnations of the characters that aren’t usually associated with the Defenders. You know, you expect Angel and you get Archangel. You expect Ghost Rider and you get 90s Blaze with the hellfire gun. You expect Kid Nova and you get Annihilation Nova. You expect the 70s Son of Satan and you get current Hellstorm as a demon lord.

Incidentally, the inclusion of Hellstorm in your lists reminds me of how disappointed I am that no one ever followed up on the Last Defenders. How is it that PAD could embrace that Lady Liberators nonsense while completely ignoring that She-Hulk is supposed to be on a team with an ex SHIELD agent and warlords of both the underwater and underworld variety?

Blazing Skull and Deadpool on the same team may actually cause the universe to implode from awesomeness.

At least two of the evil Defenders (Beetle and Plantman) have since become heroes so the villain summoning might actually work. Plus there’s always the “Earth is where we keep our stuff” motivation. Also I don’t think the Looter or Toad get enough props.

Rocket Raccoon was a Defender? Awesome.

Mmm, Deadpool, Blazing Skull, the Looter, and Rocket Raccoon. What does it say about the team when RR is the serious character? Then again, that’s pretty much how GoG plays him too.

(I’d suggest the Prowler but I suspect that I’m the only one that wants him back)

Does Richard Rory count as a Defender? I know he has some ties to them and he seems like enough of a “weird shit” magnet that I could see him getting drawn into a huge cosmic battle.

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mygif

Also, didn’t the Great Lakes Initiative (then the Great Lakes X-Men) briefly consider becoming the Great Lakes Defenders before being discouraged from taking that name and settling on the Great Lakes Champions for all of five minutes? Wouldn’t it be great if the cosmos decided it still counted and the spell sends Flatman, Big Bertha, or Grasshopper to help Strange? Naturally I’m redefining “great” as “horrible” since Squirrel Girl and Doorman (and maybe Mr Immortal) are the only ones that are ever useful. Y’know what? They should just send Tippy Toe by herself so she can provide fourth-wall-shattering commentary alongside Deadpool while everyone else wonders why Nightmare or whoever is so afraid of the small rodent.

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mygif

I’m glad someone brought up The Last Defenders. That no one else touches on She-Hulk being part of that group is just annoying…

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This thread has convinced me to read more Defenders….course I still want to get my hands on Gerber’s run.

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Lister Sage said on April 24th, 2009 at 8:21 am

Beacon: I wish I had thought of this. Squirrel Girl and Deadpool always bring the funny. Plus the fact that Wade is terrified of her.

marvinmartian: Likewise. Did you know there’s only one Marvel Masterworks Defenders? And from what I can find it out of print. What the fuck Marvel?

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LurkerWithout: I know it’s really petty but I’m hoping the new Savage She-Hulk is a big enough flop that they’re forced to do something interesting with Jen again. Then again, Marvel seems to have a history of claiming critical and commercial failures as successes so we’ll probably just see more denial.

marvinmartian: There are several Essentials out there if you don’t mind black and white.

Lister Sage: I’m not sure SG is the greatest idea. It’s pretty obvious that MGK wants to play with Deadpool and SG’s presence undermines his effectiveness as a character. Humiliating Wade Wilson works better in his own book than it does when you’re featuring him as a guest star. Of course I also kinda want to see Dormammu or someone similar wet themselves at the sight of just Tippy Toe or Monkey Joe* so I guess that makes me a total hypocrite.

*I imagine it’d be like looking in the sky, seeing the Silver Surfer, and knowing Galactus wasn’t far behind.

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mygif

Question about Deadpool in the upcoming movie…

Is he going to think he’s in a comic book or a movie?

Or is this “pre-crazy” wade?

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Bluejacket: someone on another forum I go to saw a sneak/downloaded the illegal torrent and described the movie Deadpool. It sounded very disappointing indeed. Link here; big fat spoilers, as you might expect.

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In general, the reason Valkyrie isn’t counted as a “core Defender” is because people use “core” when they mean “founding”, and so to those people, the Defenders should be Strange, Hulk, Namor, and the Silver Surfer, even though that team is absolutely the worst team dynamic and the hardest to write for of any of the various Defenders permutations over the years. (Giffen’s whole schtick was to poke fun at just how unworkable a team it was, which is great for a limited series but wouldn’t work for a regular series.)

The “core” Defenders team, IMHO, is really Strange, Hulk, Hellcat, Valkyrie, and Nighthawk. I don’t think I’d go back to that for a Defenders revival, necessarily, but I think that starting with Strange and working outwards is the right idea. Strange is the pro-active one, he’s the most sociable of the lot, and he has the base. (Incidentally, I’ve been saying for a while now that the post-Civil War “New Avengers” was actually the New New Defenders, and I Am Right.)

I have the sudden urge to steal MGK’s format and do fifty reasons Why I Should Write the Defenders. 🙂

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mygif

Well, the Silver Surfer isn’t a “founding member” of the Defenders. It’s just Strange, Namor, and the Hulk. Not that they got together for any other reason than Strange hassling them.

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New Rule:
“Big Four-ism” is a guaranteed sign that someone is “Defenders ignorant.”
Any interview with a creator assigned to a new Defenders project that shows this bias is reason to worry.

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thandrak said on April 25th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

Random points. Nighthawk and Hellcat have powers.
Nighthawk was gifted with… something… by Gaea after that horrible horrible The Order series, and Hellcat, besides her costume-gaining abilities from her resurrection, seems to have some dawning magical abilities, from her wonderful, glorious, Kathy Immonen-penned miniseries.

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mygif

It was something like “the ability to call the Defenders together”, wasn’t it?

But anyway, Nighthawk already had powers: his strength etc. doubles at night, courtesy of the Grandmaster.

Patsy, as always, has the power of being the greatest girlfriend you never had.

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Evil Abraham Lincoln said on April 27th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

Z typed

“Why is Namor a Defender anyway? I mean Strange, Hulk and Silver are all in a power league of their own on their respective axes. But Namor? Why?”

Because he rules 75% of the planet, he’s one of the few people on Earth who can get into a fight with the Hulk and walk away from the experience (make a list, it’s essentially Thor, Juggernaut, Sentry and Namor, and Namor’s had the most practice. Note that I didn’t mention the Thing.), and (prior to his anti-hero/anti-villian turn) he’d made a career of smacking around superhero teams like the Avengers and the Fantastic Four without outside help. It’s part of the Defenders _former_ mystique (until Wizard decided to milk the Defenders=pathetic meme) that the weakest member of the founding team was a guy who could and had conquered an entire city in 10 minutes.

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mygif

Namor only starts to seem like “weakest member” if you toss in the Surfer, really…since Surfy pretty much handily outclasses all the other three.

And people complain about Doc being a deus ex machina!

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Cookie McCool said on April 28th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

Plus, what other Defender has the nerve to walk around with little wussie wings on his ankles? That is the a sign that a bad-ass of epic proportions lurks within.

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Beachfox said on April 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

I am in full favor of this, but only because I want to see Deadpool vs Creeky.

“Ur, Strangey buddy? Is it alright if I bail for awhile? Creepycrawl is giving me the heebies.”

(from the other room) “But if your skull sounds like a chimichanga when it knits back together, just imagine what that could mean! I’ll only break it once, I promise!”

“Yeah, I’m gonna be hiding somewhere until the next plot point. Toodles.”

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Mary Warner said on August 24th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

I could never understand why people always want to bring back the Strange-Namor-Hulk-Surfer version of the Defenders. It was probably the worst version of the ‘team’ ever. None of these guys works well on a team (except for Strange, and he does best as a part-timer). The best Defenders was Beast,Angel, Iceman, Gargoyle, Valkyrie, Moondragon, Cloud, but some of the earlier people like Hellstrom, Hellcat, and Dr Strange also work well. Any future version of the Defenders should be based around these people, with maybe a few changes depending on who’s available. Deadpool might work– I’m not sure. I’ve still never read any story with Deadpool except for X-Force #2, and he wasn’t very Deadpoolish yet back then. I keep hearing lots of great stuff about him, so I need to check him out sometime. (I don’t usually like the really violent characters, though. So I hope the humour and stuff would be enough to make up for that.)

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