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Asher Elbein said on November 10th, 2013 at 12:17 am

I admire a film with the balls to stage its climactic fight as a slapstick farce.

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That’s certainly an interesting takeaway. Most reviews I’ve seen have found the movie’s diverse female cast one of its better aspects.

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Canukistani John said on November 10th, 2013 at 11:53 am

Watched it with the kids last night, and though there are a number of females in the mix, MGK has some real truth behind him. Female characters, even when they do jump up and kick some ass (and they do) are mostly there to show just how much stronger Thor is compared to them.

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I really don’t see that. The movie is “Thor”, so it’s obviously going to be about him in the end (to the extent that it isn’t about Loki, which a lot of people have been talking about). Jane and even Darcy the comic relief are both important to the climax in realistic ways, Frigga gets a really strong showing; Sif is a bit underused, like the supporting Asgardians in general, but she gets to do stuff.

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The best female character in Thor 2 is Darcy, who actually has a personality. Jane Foster is so terrible it’s sad.

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Frigga’s death could be seen as a fridging–she dies to give Thor and Loki angst and motivation to go after Malekith. I personally wouldn’t say that, because her death did serve a purpose: saving Jane from falling into Malekith’s hands. Plus I appreciated that she got to do more than the last movie, where she managed to kill a single nameless ice giant mook before Lauffey just shoves her aside.

My main problem with the film gender-wise was that Jane was (practically literally) just an object for the men to fight over. She contributed nothing to the plot. Well, she did operate the machine at the end, but that’s about it–she didn’t design the devices, formulate the plan, figure out where Malekith would be (that was all Erik), she just got to push some buttons. It’s not even clear how much that affected the fight, since space was already warping, so how much of Malekith and Thor being teleported around was even her doing?

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Frigga beating up Malekith and then getting killed to give Thor and Loki motivation went from awesome to sucky so fast it almost gave me whiplash.

The main character does need to be the main character, but that doesn’t mean he needs to be the best at everything.

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Thor wasn’t the best at everything.

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Tim O'Neil said on November 10th, 2013 at 8:57 pm

“regressive gender politics” is Marvel Studios’ middle name. Only makes sense since Whedon is high on the hog over there.

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Could’ve been worse. Thor could’ve thrown bloodied trading cards of his mother down to motivate his friends into action.

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The gender politics were weird. There are some ways in which it was admirable (as a few people have pointed out, the movie passes the Bechdel test) and Jane and Darcy are certainly memorable, likeable characters. But then there’s the way Jane almost literally becomes a MacGuffin to be fought over, Frigga being a borderline fridging even as the character is pretty cool up til then, and even Darcy falling into the intern’s arms was a bit dodgy.

I’ve heard Sif was meant to have a bigger role in this but Jamie Alexander was injured during filming, so her role had to be rewritten. Real shame–they were setting her up for something interesting.

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gadge emeritus said on November 11th, 2013 at 5:06 am

Funnily enough, I heard that Loki was to have a smaller role in this until the studio realised his popularity, so you can lay some of the blame for Frigga’s death (as the Very Big Reason for Thor to even think of teaming up with Loki)at the door of the Tom Hiddleston fangirls.

And the intern fell into Darcy’s arms first.

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Seriously, Darcy has swept the intern off his feet. and that’s why Katt Dennings is the best. and the ‘meow meow’ callback.

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Sean D. Martin said on November 11th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

@Skemono: She contributed nothing to the plot. Well, she did operate the machine at the end, but that’s about it

Which is a reversal on the usual gender roles. Typically it’s the man who steps in to administer the final blow. Here, it was the woman who took charge of the devices developed by the man.

She took the tools developed by Eric, to the place identified by Eric to fight the problem recognized and prepared for by Eric while he followed along like a puppy dog contributing nothing but holding on to a, ahem, pillar when she told him to.

Actually, quite a reversal when I think about it.

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I specifically noticed on my second viewing the comment that Erik makes to Jane about his spikes being meant to detect, not create, gravimetric effects. Between that line and Jane being the one at the controls, I get the sense that she actually modified his work before getting to Greenwich (remember her comments in the apartment about wanting to see all of the research on gravity effects and such after her experience with the Aether). It’s something that could have been made more clear, but that seems the most logical reading to me.

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Typically it’s the man who steps in to administer the final blow.

Yeah, that was still Thor.

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Selvig kind of deals the final blow, by pushing the button when Jane gets distracted by the possibility of Thor being crushed.

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Sean D. Martin said on November 11th, 2013 at 11:50 pm

Yeah, that was still Thor.

In the fisticuffs, yeah. But the task being done by Jane/Selvig still went as I described.

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The Unstoppable Gravy Express said on November 12th, 2013 at 9:21 am

Did anyone else get an Amy/Rory vibe from Darcy/Intern or was it just me?

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Pennyforth said on November 12th, 2013 at 9:56 am

A Facebook friend summed it up in a way I feel worthy of endorsement:

“Peter Jackson’s Flash Gordon”.

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During the final battle I had a great idea what Jane would be doing: use her iPad thingy to manipulate the spatial rifts to help out. Teleport some debris flying at bystanders toward Malekith, teleport Malekith away from some crucial energy flow before he could seize it, teleport herself or others to safety. They got halfway through the fight without doing anything like that – the new guy intern got to throw a car, even, not Jane or Darcy. But I figured there’s still time. And then at the climactic point when Thor is randomly teleported out of town, that would have been the perfect time for it. All they needed was to stall Malekith, so it would have been perfectly plausible and yet still cool and important for Jane to do it for a crucial minute. But no, Thor just takes the train back. In the end all she did was push the button to activate the things Thor stabbed Malekith with. That’s it? Seriously?

The intern throwing the car and Thor on the subway were fun, funny scenes, but they weren’t more important than having the female characters make any noticeable contribution to the fight.

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Look Jane Foster is and always has been an awful character. That’s why the comics ditched her, though annoying retro movements keep trying to bring her back.

She’s as bad as any early Marvel girlfriend without the benefit of being a super hero in her own right that could develop (Wasp, Sue, Jean) or at least the hook of her father hunting the hero (Betty).

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For me, the annoying part of relegating Foster to the damsel to be defended role for most of the movie is that given she was “infected” by the all-powerful McGuffin, they could have very easily written a few scenes with her using it to kick ass. It wouldn’t be any more implausible than the idea Thor could learn how to fly one of the Dark Elves’ ships by himself in a few seconds.

My other problem with the film was one more based on my feelings from the comics, where I prefer the rest of Thor’s supporting cast, from Volstagg to Sif to Heimdall, over Thor himself, and I thought it was a waste of the cast to chuck them off one by one. I know it’s Thor’s movie, but I’d still rather spend time with them.

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Scavenger, Betty’s been un-killed and made a hero, too. Unfortunately, so has her dad.

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Funnily enough, I heard that Loki was to have a smaller role in this until the studio realised his popularity, so you can lay some of the blame for Frigga’s death (as the Very Big Reason for Thor to even think of teaming up with Loki)at the door of the Tom Hiddleston fangirls.

I think Thor and Loki were always intended to team up for the Svarthelheim mission, though. The added Loki scene was the one at the beginning, with Odin, and possibly also the last scene… I think they mentioned not initially intending him to survive. (And for that matter, Frigga’s death was one of the very earliest spoilers that leaked, so it clearly wasn’t a late addition due to studio pressures.)

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Kyle W.: Betty’s been un-killed and made a hero, too. Unfortunately, so has her dad.

As I was despamming, I ran across this out of context, and I wondered wtf was going on in Archie comics nowadays.

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I just saw Thor 2, MGK what ” regressive gender politics” did you see in this movie?

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Jane’s courage is the force that drives the story. Again and again, Jane steps up and does the brave thing, even occasionally when her hands are shaking from fear. That’s not regressive gender politics, that’s true humanity and showing the “gods” up for what they are.

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