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Galamb_borong said on December 27th, 2007 at 9:32 am

While I think adding yet another detail to Wolverine’s back story is pointless, I will be glad if it wipes out little-Victorian-boy Wolverine forever. Too much to hope, I know, but I can dream…

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Funny, it’s that completist sense in me that finally compelled me to watch Spider-Man 3 last night, and oh God, is it possible that a movie that grossed so much at the box office can still be a franchise killer? (And I still have yet to sit through The Matrix: Revolutions, which I know I must, if only for closure, knowing that its suckery will be vast and profound.) I confess to not pinpointing the dancing scene, mainly because by that point my eyes glazed over from wondering if everyone in the film somehow had a symbiote attached and that would explain their rampant Spider-dickery. (Funny how it seems that these movies included needed to be edited more tightly, scenes cut instead of added — perhaps, in the case of Balls of Fury, into nothingness.)

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The reviews for Spider-Man 3 indicated that it was to make it so that Peter could never be cool, even when trying to ‘act’ it. So I went into the movie expecting to see that.

I didn’t. The “Peter as a cool guy” failed to even live up to whatever the critics thought they saw.

As to Countdown…Is it really dropping sales? I mean I know the tie ins suck, but I don’t know if Countdown is dropping. Fans have this completist mentality, no matter how bad something is. (Look at One More Day, which as I think it completed yesterday probably belongs in this list.)

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malakim2099 said on December 27th, 2007 at 10:45 am

I’m just curious… how did “One More Day” escape your well-deserved wrath? Or is that something that is so particularly awful (I mean, it makes Countdown look GOOD, for crying out loud) that it needs it’s own post?

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Wolverine and Doiby Dickles? “That’s gold, Jerry! GOLD!”

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Sad to say, I would probably buy a comic that consisted of nothing but Wolverine in his rocket-powered funny car drag racing Spider-Man and his Spider-Mobile.

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Yeah, I basically went in to Balls of Fury expecting some Blades of Fury magic or something comparable. The only thing I laughed at the entire time was the joke in the trailer.

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Gotta agree with malaklm2099. OMD is so horrendous it has to belong on here, ESPECIALLY if you’ve seen how it ends (I don’t know, have you?)

That said..parts of Countdown are semi-enjoyable. Piper and Trickster (before..well), Jokester (before..again, the whole, yknow, dying)..actually, all the cool parts keep getting killed off and we keep getting more of Girls Gone Wild, Jimmy Olsen: Bugfucker, Challengers of the Who Gives a Shit, Brother eye am killing this joke and of course, Black Mary (because I couldn’t think of anything resembling clever to call her)

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What no Harry Potter?

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I’m inclined to agree with almost everything on your list. Almost. I’ve actually found myself enjoying Season 3 of Prison Break so far, though the loss of a staple characters like Sarah and C-note and even Veronica has seriously bothered me. Though the show could have very easily ended with one season…thus far, I’ve found the second season to be the most enjoyable. Whether you liked it or not, you have to admit that Alexander Mahone was a great character (and still is), providing us with the only real intellectual opposition to Michael’s end-all-be-all “super genius” that seems to take precedence in the show. No, the second season was definitely the most exciting, and while falling behind it’s predecessors, I actually think that the Panama angle works to some degree. Sona really is an interesting environment and they’ve done a good just thus far establishing the scenery and social caste of a Prison run by the Prisoners.

All that said, I’ve been irritated by the writers not really knowing what to do with “The Company”, which still remains to be a generic, shadowy secret organization that wants to do…something, but at least we have a clear direction that the show is headed in and you know…a coherent, if occasionally poorly developed plot. Something that LOST and Heroes have yet to give us, despite their acclaim.

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I must defend the Tony committee. Dan Fogler won his Tony Award for playing a douchey asshole. Someone completely unappealing and uncharismatic. And he played it very well. I saw him and thought he was great. Since then, my opinion of him has grown to match yours. I look at him like French Stewart or Keanu Reeves. Stewart was great on 3rd Rock From the Sun, likewise Keanu in Bill and Ted. They will suck in anything else they ever do. There’s one perfect part for every actor, I guess.

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Screw all you people. Disco Peter was FINALLY SOMETHING FUNNY in Spider-Man films. I’ve been DYING for Spider-Man to be funny – you know, like Spider-Man is supposed to be. I thought it was awesome and I think Spidey 3 gets WAY too much flak.

I’m stoked for Iron Man, though. Robert Downey Jr. and Jon Favreau mean there might actually be crackling dialog in a comic-book movie for once. Which is something Spider-Man should have.

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malakim2099 said on December 27th, 2007 at 3:54 pm

Screw all you people. Disco Peter was FINALLY SOMETHING FUNNY in Spider-Man films. I’ve been DYING for Spider-Man to be funny – you know, like Spider-Man is supposed to be. I thought it was awesome and I think Spidey 3 gets WAY too much flak.

The problem, to me, wasn’t exactly Peter trying to be funny. It was Peter trying to be Smiling Bob from the Enzyte Commercials. What, does having a symbiote increase sexual performance? :p

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Ahhahaha, Disco Parker was awesome. Ever since, I’ve danced down the street just the same way, and the ladies just love it !!!

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Forgive me…I don’t know how to make quote boxes…

You know, I’ve never actually seen a movie franchise so vividly jump the shark. I saw that stupid dance and said to myself, “wow – this is the exact moment that Spider-Man movies started to suck.”

Let’s see…a canon love interest gets crammed into the movie (extra irony: a natural blonde playing a redhead, while a redhead plays a blonde), a massive retcon smacks the hero and his aunt in the face, and a villain that should’ve been made in the third movie and unleashed in the fourth…and Peter Parker indulging his inner Travolta was the worst thing that happened? The bright side is that we get this parody from X-Play. I think a fourth movie could be made…though if MJ is off in Europe doing theater, I wouldn’t mind.

I agree on Survivor: China. Sad fact of life: the fall seasons of the show pale in comparison to the spring editions (exceptions: Pearl Islands and Cook Islands. But for true horror, I present The Amazing Race: All-Stars. I’d go over what I hated, but it would take a while. At least Todd can be presented as a semi-decent (read: “not Jenna Morasca”) winner…how the hell can anybody explain Eric & Danielle?

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I’m probably going to catch flak, but I really thought that the retcon for Sandman really helped the film. I enjoyed how it played out, and I thought it gave Spider-Man a touch of much needed nobility in the end when he forgave Sandman. It was just a way to inject some cheap heat on Sandman and provide more to it than “there’s a bad guy. He’s robbing banks and being bad. He and Spider-Man are going to punch each other until one of them goes down.” I dunno, I guess I’m a sucker for that sort of thing. The compare/contrast between Spider-Man and Sandman just struck me as a neat thing to do (they’re both guys suffering because they made some bad choices, but the thing to realize about them is that their bad choices don’t mean they’re bad people), and it gave things a thematic backbone. A lot of the stuff that happened was telegraphed a mile away, though I didn’t mind that and because I’m not a big Spidey-fan it wasn’t anything that struck me as something I wouldn’t expect from Spider-Man. Too much of that ’90s cartoon.

And I thought Parker dancing like a tool was funny.

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I gotta say, I thought the whole Peter-dancing thing was pretty funny as well. Peter Parker is still a geek at heart, and even when he’s acting ‘evil,’ he’s still a geek.

And I thought the scene where he danced in MJ’s night club and humiliated her was effective in showing how far he had fallen. That was *truly* dickish.

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El Bastardo Magnifico said on December 27th, 2007 at 9:16 pm

Andrew, one of the main reasons Peter puts on the costume in the first place is his guilt over not stopping the robber that went on to kill Uncle Ben. When it’s changed so that Ben would have probably died regardless of what Peter did you lose the guilt as well as the whole “power and responsibility” angle, two big parts of the core of the character. As far as Final Crisis goes I keep heard that the characters in Countdown will play a big part in it. I don’t know if I’ll want to read it if that’s the case.

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I’m glad to hear I’m not the only person who thought the dancing scene was funny (I suspect that like Sam Raimi, I’m a sucker for a cheap joke.) I’m also glad to hear I’m not the only person who thought the major mis-step of Spider-Man 3 was having the Sandman be the one who shot Uncle Ben. I’ve already mentally edited that out.

And I gotta say, while I totally agree with you in every aspect about Wolverine, I’d still love to see him get a rocket-powered funny car. (Oh, and I’ll tack on an extra complaint: Does he really also have to be a member of the Avengers? Don’t the Avengers have rules about “not killing”? Didn’t Hawkeye expel his own freaking wife from the team because she let a man die? Maybe they put corks on the end of his claws before he goes into battle or something.)

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@ El Bastardo Magnifico: while there’s the guilt angle lost, I had picked up somewhere along the line the clearly false impression that Spider-Man would still have the responsibility to use his power to help people whether Uncle Ben died or not. To me, that whole angle about “with great power comes great responsibility” meant that you did the right thing to the best of your abilities no matter what, and for me it put Spider-Man in the category of guys like Superman and Captain America rather than Batman and the Punisher. I thought that that was sort of the deal, you know? If, at his core, Parker wouldn’t’ve become Spider-Man if not for that fateful night, well . . . I just can’t see what everyone’s so invested in. I’m not slamming that emotional investment or love of a character, but if he’s just motivated by an unrequitable urge for vengeance I’d find him significantly less interesting.

And given how shakey Marko was depicted as at the time, if Parker had stopped the guy committing the robbery, it seems logical that he would’ve split at the first sign something had gone wrong. But I dunno. I do too much thinking about these things (e.g. in Superman Returns, I thought it was clear that the Kryptonite had a lesser effect on Superman in the end because it was diffused in plain old rock, but other folks seemed to think that the movie needed to tell us that, rather than show).

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Oh, I think the Spider franchise jumped the shark at the “Raindrops keep falling on my head” sequence in SM2. The Peter Parker “bad boy” dance scene was a breath of fresh air in comparison. He might have been acting like a showboating idiot, but at least he wasn’t WHINING anymore.

Plus, I have to give props to any film that can piss off so many Gwen Stacy and Venom cultists. If any segment of comic book fandom deserve to be marginalized, its them.

As far as the PotC goes, its usually been the fact that the 2nd movie was the boring one and the first and third movies were great. This series totally turns that around. The only entertaining one of the three was Dead Man’s Chest. I think, ultimately, At World’s End was trying too hard to be a Terry Gilliam movie.

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It’s not a vengeance thing. It’s not Punisher striking out and killing everyone cuz that’s what was done to him (I’m over simplifying, I know). It’s not Batman, driven by the need to make sure no one else suffers what he did. It’s basically fulfilling someone’s last wishes. It’s living up to the legacy Uncle Ben left him.

Basically, when I think of that retcon, I think of Sins Past and how that wrecked a lot of motivation and emotion from that whole story.

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I have a theory about Spider-Man 3: Sam Raimi REALLY wanted to make a musical, but the studio told him he had to make a Spider-Man movie instead.

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I honestly enjoyed all the silly “Dark Peter” stuff, because instead of an angsty Dark Hero Smoldering With Generic Rage we got him enjoying himself and actually a light approach to the whole thing.

It’s a flawed film, I’m not going to argue that, but the dancing I enjoyed.

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I like the Wolverine/Sabretooth bit for two reasons:
1) Sabretooth works as a foil to Wolverine, who is usually trying not to go batshit crazy and make people afraid of him, whereas that is Sabretooth’s forte.
2) Irregardless of all their normal knockdown, dragout fights throughout the year, they meet up once a year to try to kill the shit out of each other.

Admittedly, I’ve not payed much attention to the X-books since the nineties (excepting Morrison’s run), so it wouldn’t surprise me to find out Sabretooth is a decendent of Peter the great’s hunting werewolves, and was adopted as a stray by Aunt May.

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So basically, Wolverine is Peter Griffith, and Sabretooth is the chicken. Gotcha.

Funnier dance sequence…Peter getting his SNF on, or the Master doing a number to Scissor Sisters’ “I Can’t Decide” in the finale of Doctor Who?

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[…] “Dan Didio’s latest comments about how the fans just don’t appreciate all the hard work that’s going into Countdown To Final Crisis are completely misdirected. You see, we know perfectly well how much work is going into Countdown: it takes a lot of work to write a year-long weekly series, multiple tie-in miniseries, and more one-shots than I can conveniently remember (with many, many colons and liberal use of the word ‘presents’). We know it’s not intended to be haphazard, boring, or gratituous. Unfortunately, though, it is haphazard, boring, and gratituous, and there literally has not been a single Countdown book, not one single, solitary, lousy issue, that has been readable — let alone ‘good.’ It’s all a vast morass of cheap fanboy porn masquerading as a story, ‘what if’ concepts in plot’s clothing.” – Christopher Bird […]

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Fishcakes said on April 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm

if, in 2008, Wolverine is given a rocket-powered funny car, amusing derby-hat wearing comedy sidekick, and the hobby of juggling potatoes, learned from a ten-year journey through the back counties of Ireland, because Marvel seems absolutely determined to overcomplicate and dilute the essence of one of their best and most enduring commercial properties as much as possible.

You should write every comic, ever, not just the Legion.

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