Where do gods come from in the Marvel Universe, anyway?
I mean, at this point it’s pretty clear that they exist independent of human belief, so the ever-popular Terry Pratchett theory of godly creation (which was adopted by Neil Gaiman for the DCU in Sandman) is right out. They’re just sort of there. Either they were created by some even more vast power than they themselves might be, or perhaps they grew out of nothingness: the primary gods in each pantheon were formless energy which somehow gained sentience in the early days of the universe. Each theory has its proponents, of course (with more than a little personal interest backing said theories more often than not).
What we can adduce, though, through simply observation, is that regardless of whether or not the creation of gods is directed or spontaneous, it is most certainly difficult, and likely requires a set of circumstances that mostly do not exist nowadays: the heady days when every cosmic fart would create a brand new pantheon looking for a bunch of believers to collectively call Home are long since over. The gods themselves don’t know how they came to be: if you asked Odin or Zeus or Izanagi or Gitche Manitou how they came to be, not a one of them would remember. And even if they did, and they don’t, they certainly wouldn’t tell you.
Which is why it comes as a shock to Stephen Idle, a bike courier in Los Angeles, when he suddenly figures out that he’s the God of Couriers. He’s not sure how it happened; all of a sudden he’s faster on his bike than the wind and can hear the nonspecific prayers of his fellow couriers for speed and skill and truck avoidance. Plus, there is that one time that he flips a semi when it’s about to hit his best friend, with naught more than a wave of his hand. And why are all the girls at the courier agency looking at him like he’s James Bond all of a sudden? He gets himself checked for a mutant gene, but there’s nothing there. His powers aren’t natural; hell, when he tries to get them identified they disappear entirely, like they don’t want to be seen.
Hank Farnell, in Oklahoma, realizes at about the same time that he is the God of Cowboys. His lasso can snare the horizon itself. The cattle follow him like loyal dogs, his horse seems to be glowing for some reason, and Hank’s pretty sure he shouldn’t be able to ride across falling snowflakes. Betsy Klein in London discovers that she is the Goddess of Negotiation when the company she’s dealing with, in a tense labour standoff, agrees to not only accede to the union’s demands but offers a potential worker buyout – the CEO says he’s so very sorry, and would they like his past decade’s salary as a sign of good faith? Alex Ngwambe in Zanzibar comes to understand his place as the God of Bargains; Thoi Pham in Hong Kong learns he is the God of Mad Beats; Shannon Mckittrell in Auckland learns she is the Goddess of Bungee.
And if the societal confusion caused by this brand new pantheon was not bad enough, here is the thing: the other gods, the ones already extant? They’re pissed. Most of them, remember, aren’t really very nice people: good chaps like Hercules and Thor are not very representative of their pantheons, really, and the Asgardian and Greek pantheons are actually a couple of the nicer ones. Tensions start ratcheting up; half of the pantheons just want to kill these newcomers and the other half wants to recruit them. And what’s worse is that most of the new gods don’t want to be gods at all. Really, godhood is kind of a pain in the ass. (“Worshippers? You can have ’em. And what the fuck is up with auguries? Why am I expected to respond to a pile of steaming entrails?”)
This is the sort of thing only the Sorcerer Supreme can do: serve as the go-between and negotiator for a dozen pantheons while simultaneously putting his foot down to protect the former mortals (even the leaders of most pantheons, powerful as they might be, don’t want to risk that the current Sorcerer Supreme might be able to take them on) and investigating to figure out why suddenly there’s so much spare godliness to go around (and who or what might have caused it). The fact that there’s any new gods at all isn’t wondrous: it’s potentially very worrisome. That’s the sort of thing that prompts Dr. Strange to make house calls.
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I think Marvel attempted to explain where their Gods came from during the Earth/Universe/Paradise X Minis. if i remember correctly at least one God in each pantheon was supposed to be a sentient cosmic cube influenced by the subconscious beliefs of early life in the universe.
Didn’t Douglas Adams do this on “So Long And Thanks For All The Fish”?
At least this won’t be people picking up random bits of Cytorrak’s divine essence or whatever.
Can there be animal gods? Like, spirit totems?
You probably know where I’m going with this.
I thought I was the God of Mad Beats. 🙁
Close, Stig – it was actually “The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul.
Actually, scratch that. Didn’t both books have that as a theme? (Dirk’s fridge becoming a powerful new ‘guilt god’, Rob McKenna being a supposed rain god). Apparently it’s too early in the morning for coherent thought (for me).
I was thinking of the Rain God, and he’s much closer to what MGK is proposing here; plus, it’s sort of an idea which, while a good one, has been played about with in various forms for a long long while…e.g., the kid in “Good Omens” finding out he’s the Anti-Christ, or JMS’ disputed idea in his run on Spider-Man that Spidey was some kind of chosen champion for the Primeval Great Spinner God Thingy.
(…Which, even if it was crap, was miles better an idea than “Spider-Man Won’t Stop Abusing This One Woman’s Trust”.)
Can I be God of Mad Posts? I need the work.
I have wondered how much of Earth-X’s mythology we should regard as canon. Because just about every cosmic mystery in the MU is explained over the course of the three series, it shuts down a lot of future story ideas if those explanations are believed. But on the other hand, if it’s regarded simply as another “What If?” is *has* to be regarded as canonical since all the background stuff regarding the Celestials and the Earth pantheons predates the actual divergence point from the 616. So, it’s probably better to regard Earth-X as a good old fashioned “Imaginary Story” – even if it’s just a “What If?” world, the rules of the MU would still dictate that the explanations laid out in any cosmic backstory were in fact the correct backstory.
Can I be God of Mad Posts? I need the work.
Sure, but you have to leave your Caps Lock on all the time.
Of course would there be a self-referential God of Blogging? Or God of Comics? Or sub-God of Comic Parody?
The Meta God of Meta?
/me brain fizzles out.
This idea actually works really well in the current Marvel Universe. I mean, Zeus or Odin wouldn’t even think twice about taking on the Sorcerer Supreme. After all, he’s just a mortal, and they’ve been ruling pantheons since forever. That combination of arrogance and power means that they’re willing to fight just about anyone right out of the gate. But Zeus and Odin are in no position to do anything right now (Odin’s still dead, right?), and not only are their replacement leaders still a bit shaky with regards to their positions, but Zeus and Odin generally took charge whenever the pantheons all came together. Without them, the heads of the other, weaker pantheons are less likely to press an issue, or come to a consensus opinion. So with the disheveled state of the Marvel U. pantheons, this story would work really well.
How would you be able to tell the difference between a Goddess of Cats and a crazy cat lady? Or between a God of Pocky and a short dude who likes Japan too much?
I think Grant Morrison is jockeying for that position, if he doesn’t have it already.
[SCENE: Avengers Mansion – Internal]
DR STRANGE strides through en route to confer with HERCULES and THOR about the new gods. JARVIS sits reading newspaper (DB?) with god-related headline.
Jarvis: *Sigh* I would have rather liked to be god of butling.
Strange: You’d have to fight Wong on that one.
IIRC, according to the recent Thor & Hercules: Encyclopedia Mythologica handbook, the Earth Mother Gaia hooked up with a lot of the pantheon heads and gave birth to lots of the Marvel god, including Thor.
She was kind of a hussy.
Aristotle was the original expositor (or at least the most important ancient one) of the concept of the prime mover, and the idea was picked up and harmonized with Christian theology by the scholastics like Thomas Aquinas in the Middle Ages. Augustine didn’t do much with the concept, so far as I recall, as he was more of a neo-Platonist. End philosphical nitpicking.
Not to mention that there’s only one prime mover.
Unless it’s a really big tractor, like the ones that pull tanks around and such. Could Doctor Strange play with a really big tractor-trailer? That would be cool.
Does this make you the God of SYTYCD?
One day did you wake up and realize you can time step into the land of the dinosaurs, do a flashdance brighter than the sun, and moonwalk on the moon?
“why suddenly there’s so much spare godliness to go around”
That line made me immediately think of Pratchett’s Hogfather.
I think he would have to actually be able to dance himself for that one.
Pratchett came up with the “God creation” theory before Gaiman? I thought Small Gods didn’t hit until after Sandman had been around for a while. Not to mention the fact that the two had already collaborated on Good Omens, so it’s possible they sort of came up with it together.
From out of the wreckage of a 7-11 walks a man who is now…more than a man.
“I AM…STEVE! GOD OF FROZEN BURRITOS!
As he speaks, all frozen convenience foodstuffs within fourteen miles spontaneously cook themselves, and the air takes on the smell of frijoles refritos…
When the worst thing anyone can say about your idea is that it kind of reads like you ganked it from Terry Pratchett and/or Douglas Adams, you’ve got a pretty solid idea.
The final issue of Volume 2 of Thor, the one that had the Thor: Disassembled arc, attempted to explain the origin of the Norse gods. Apparently, they were created by other Gods. These other gods, feed on the never ending cycle of Ragnarok, until Thor stops it.
I’d like to read about how the new gods’ own faith would interfere with their new cosmic position. Like if a Southern Baptist became the God of Cake..
Or if a militant atheist became the God of Beneficial Contagions.
Or if a Scientologist became the God of Xenomorphic Literature
Or if a Mormon became the god of Con Artists
That kind of thing would make for good reading.
Dr. Strange didn’t really do shit when Thor took over the world during the Reigning. All he did was put a necklace on Thor provided by the other skyfathers to cut Thor off from the Odinpower. And even then, Loki gave Strange a magical bitch-slapping.
Odin’s still dead – he’s in limbo, locked in an eternal battle with Surtr.
Zeus’s kinda out of things, too – he’s been reborn as a boy with no memories of everything he’s done before.
When Warren Ellis did that really interesting placeholder run on THOR in the mid-90s, just before the book was axed for “Heroes Reborn”, he raised the possibility that the Asgardians, at least, were actually a race of aliens so old, they had forgotten their true origins, and with science so advanced, it seemed like magic. I’ve always thought that made for as good an explanation of comic book “gods” as anything else.
Weren’t the Asgardians (and presumably the other Marvel pantheons) supposed to be aliens? I always figured they were just fully evolved experiments of the Celestials, like Franklin Richards and the Eternals but on a higher level.
It’s one of the big differences between Marvel and DC, in my mind anyway. The DC-universe is a lot more spiritual, while 616 is more based in super science. Hell even telepathy is ‘justified’ by the astral plane, and all forms of magic are derived from distinct entities, like Cytorrak and the Vishanti.
Cool idea though.
ever read/play the tabletop RPG Unknown Armies? this sounds like the Archtypes from that game – people becoming the embodiment of a mystical principle in the modern day
i’m explaining it kind of badly but all the gods you listed would fit in perfectly in a game that features a large magical cabal working at McDonalds
http://ua.johntynes.com
Clearly I’m having vision troubles, as Shiai raised a similar point. Oh well, nice to know where that comes from at least.
Well I know in the Marvel Universe Gaia is ALL the mother goddesses. She’s even Thor’s mom. Currently in Incredible Hercules Hera is trying to take over the world…(and Hercules’ half sister/estranged wife is totally still in love with him beyond obsession *lol*)
This explains the gods in Marvel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Gods_%28Marvel_Comics%29
Well, what you have to realise is that when Stephen Strange is acting as a go-between and advocate here, it isn’t just a one-way street. There are, presumably in this setting, somewhere between twenty and a couple hundred of these ‘new gods’, and if the person standing up for you and actively trying to HELP you (as opposed to all those tools trying to kill or take you for their cause) is coming under fire, a little bit of quid pro quo is likely in order.
Granted, I never really got into the Marvel pantheon-creation/powering/etcetera very much, but certainly the concepts to which these new gods are devoted seem to be at least vaguely more culturally relevant than, say, one of a dozen gods of wisdom or whatnot – if it comes down to a numbers game, the god of couriers could probably raise a force of mortals a lot faster than Odin could.
And if these new gods have even a tithe of the power that the older ‘look down their noses’ gods in the Marvelverse do, someone’s in trouble.
… Come to think of it, quite a lot of people are in trouble. Just for differing reasons.
Yeh the elder god stuff the guy above mentioned mostly explains it now.
A chance to plug some of my boring obssesive compulsive shit because its relavent.
Understanding the Elder Gods:
http://www.box.net/shared/yyn5qoasg4
Preview it if you dont want to download it
Got a tonne of other crap on there of the same line if anyones interested.
I am ignoring Alex Ross’ explanation that gods ‘were seeded by Celestial’, because I want you to add the goddess of cybersex to the pantheon.
And/or spambots. Who would be the death god archetype, obviously.
Zenrage said, “Or if a militant atheist became the God of Beneficial Contagions.”
Having a God of Atheists could be interesting.
This brings to mind Gaiman’s “American Gods,” and the conflict between the old gods and new. I’d be delighted to see something like that play out in the pages of Doctor Strange.
And Hank Farnell’s domain would be the Devil’s Plain, where the Damned Riders ride day and night, to catch those demon cows.
*Yippee-yi-yaaay, yippee-yi-yo-oh-oh! Ghost riders in the sky…*
*sigh* Stop making me want to read things that don’t exist, man. It makes me sad.
Hm. I remember the Shooter-written Avengers where Thor and Ghost Rider admit that their ‘demon’ and ‘god’ labels are hype for mortals. They themselves were both other-dimensional mystic entities.
And now I’m really, really sad, because I was actually going to go out and look for this comic, because I thought it was absolutely *inspired*. I hope you put something together and at least feed us occasional pieces of it.
I’ve always believed that humans create gods in their own image, rather than vice versa. The more belief in the god, the more energy that’s focused on the existence of that entity, until a tipping point is reached. I’m willing to think that the believers create their own versions of afterlife as well – Vikings *are* in Valhalla, Greeks are in the Elysian Fields (if they’ve been good), etc. I don’t want to think what form the afterlife for good little worshippers of Freud takes. And yes, Ghost Riders in the sky, chasing demon cows, for those who believe!
Going off into the garden to eat worms, now, because I really really want to read your comic about the New Gods *snf* …