Jan

Well, That Didn’t Take Long

Posted by MGK Published in Comics, Strippery, The Internets

2004:

2008:

EDIT TO ADD: Since Teh Mighty Kurtz hisself has seen fit to link back to me, I feel it only fair to mention where I previously did not that I think this works more as a funny unintentional tie-in gag more than anything else (with Brent being exasperated with Cole because Cole is making PvP into a Serious Comic Strip). I don’t think that was the intention at all, mostly because whatever Kurtz’s pros and cons may be, “subtlety” isn’t on the list of pros. (And this is a neutral judgement. Gilbert Gottfried isn’t subtle either, and he is as funny as fuck.)All that having been said, I still stand by the comments made in this post, and Brent’s mouth looks terrible now.

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Brad Reed said on January 25th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Hey now. That only looks hypocritical and unfunny because you cut off the last panel!

In the real last panel, the skinny dude in sunglasses follows up with, “You said that ‘swinging’ would save your marriage! Do you mean I humped your hedgehog of a wife for nothing?”

Funnies!

MDK said on January 25th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

4 years *is* FOREVER in intawtubes time!

malakim2099 said on January 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

It’s actually rampant irony.

Really.

Um… maybe?

Sig said on January 25th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Okay, that‘s funny.

Funkula said on January 25th, 2008 at 2:44 pm

I’m very glad I stopped reading PvP several years ago. Kurtz seems to have decided that his ultimate ambition is to be just as bland and inoffensive as a “real” (i.e. newspaper) comic strip.

Also, when I heard the man trashing Achewood (Achewood!) I knew he had no soul.

I must admit though, I am curious: When the fuck did Brent’s mouth migrate 6 inches upward?

Zenrage said on January 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

The migration of brent’s mouth occurred about a year ago. There was some talk over that on the boards as well.

Thomas Wilde said on January 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

When did Kurtz bash Achewood?

Nick Shogun said on January 25th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

I hate to say it MKG but you have too much free time.

Zenrage said on January 25th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

Have you ever noticed that Cole’s head is shaped like the top of a Smurf house?

Andrew said on January 25th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

This makes me miss Your Webcomic is Bad and You Should Feel Bad so much.

LurkerWithout said on January 25th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

Hey now, this will all lead up to Cole making a deal with the Devil to erase his upcoming divorce! And the company merger with Max. And Brent getting engaged. And Robbie (or Jason I forget which) being a millionaire. Putting PvP back to the relatable webcomic it once was…

The Imp said on January 25th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

PvP finally fell out of my bookmarks a couple of months ago. I’m glad I haven’t missed anything.

Rachel said on January 26th, 2008 at 1:09 am

I also quit reading PvP a few years ago, and Brent’s amazing higher mouth makes him look like a much huger tool.
So kudos to Kurtz. You know, if that was the intention.

carla said on January 26th, 2008 at 1:38 am

God damn it, Cole, indeed sir. God damn it, Cole, indeed.

Andrew said on January 26th, 2008 at 1:50 am

I wanted to get a pic of Joe Q. and Scott Kurtz, and slap on a caption that said ‘Separated at Birth?’ . . . but Kurtz is a gigantic fatty (at least, one the first page of google image search; and like, not sorta fat like John Dores, or jolly fat, like the guy on King of Queens, but like legally handicapped obese) who looks nothing like Joe Q. :/

MGK said on January 26th, 2008 at 1:56 am

Actually, Kurtz has lost a lot of weight recently – he’s still quite a big guy, but he’s definitely shrinking out of grossly-obese range, and I think he deserves full credit for doing so.

John said on January 26th, 2008 at 2:40 am

Am i the only one who still likes PvP? it still makes me laugh a lot, and its one of the highlights of the day. i mean, yes, you all can bitch about it, but i find it funny. and you’ve got to have better insults than the fact that he draws the comic differently now. its like bitching at jim davis for drawing garfield differently than he did when he first started writing it.

so screw you, ex-fanboys, go get out of your parent’s basement.

Andrew said on January 26th, 2008 at 3:23 am

@ MGK: Definitely. Most definitely. I’m even the sort of guy who’d slip him extra credit above full marks for shedding pounds.

@ John: If there’s a way to erase comments, please do so. That’s just terrible and insults you more than anyone else. Nobody’s bitching or insulting the comic to merit even half as extreme a response as the one you delivered. As a loudmouth who says a lot of stupid things, man, I know it when I see it. Take my advice, please.

Randy B. said on January 26th, 2008 at 3:38 am

“PvP finally fell out of my bookmarks a couple of months ago. I’m glad I haven’t missed anything.”

Me too.

Nick Shogun said on January 26th, 2008 at 4:38 am

@Andrew: Besides the final line, John’s argument seemed perfectly valid to me. Artist’s styles evolve over time. Whether or not that evolution is seen favorably or not is inevitably left up to the reader. Yes, Kurtz has seemingly retconned his own beliefs, but you seem to be acting much more juvenielle than John.

J. Bryan Shoup said on January 26th, 2008 at 4:45 am

Achewood ain’t untouchable. It’s still one of the best webcomics, but it’s been pretty spotty since that whole Outdoor Fight started. We get, Ray is Onstad’s id, Beef is the ego, and when he remembers he has other characters, Teodor is the super-ego. Give us more Lie Bot and Lyle, please.

I never really read PvP, so my first reaction to the 2004 strip was that I had read that same gag done by dozens of other cartoonists. The print funnies are an easy target.

Also, For Better or Worse was always a secret favorite as a kid. It was endearing, not a gag-a-minute. Remember when they did the coming out story arc? Probably one of the most touching and tastefully handled storylines ever attempted in a four-panel medium.

Print comics get a lot of bullshit, and a lot of them do suck (I’m staring at you, Pearls before Swine), but they serve a different purpose. Sometimes one needs a bit of Fawlty Towers, sometimes one needs to sit back and watch wrestling. So while the Lockhorns won’t ever offer insight like Calvin and Hobbes did, I always get a kick out of it.

Mr. Bird seems like a Perry Bible Fellowship sort of webcomic reader.

LurkerWithout said on January 26th, 2008 at 6:54 am

You know if MGK didn’t have links to several of his favorite stripson his side board Shroup might have seemed like he had a decent insight into MGK’s likes…

Thomas Wilde said on January 26th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

I believe the point is that Kurtz has, in the past, discussed the mediocrity of newspaper funnies as a bad thing, and now, years later, has seemingly aspired to that same brand of flavorless mediocrity.

Give us more Lie Bot and Lyle, please.

Hell no. Those are the weakest characters in the comic.

I read Achewood because of what Onstad does with language, and Ray, Beef, and Cornelius are the best-suited to that. If he never ran another strip with Phillippe, Lyle, or Lie Bot, I’d never miss them.

Rachel said on January 26th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

Bitch please! Pearls Before Swine is the best thing on the comics page.

Brand said on January 27th, 2008 at 4:54 am

I’m fairly sure Brent isn’t meant to be a mouthpiece character in the first comic. He doesn’t represent The Truth. I think Cole usually fills that role, while Brent delivers the gag. So the first comic might not be seen as genuine criticism of the comics, but more an observation that people are complaining about them.

Or not. Either way, Brent’s viewpoint doesn’t seem to have changed much. He’s not showing a lot of empathy so far.

Salmo said on January 27th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

Pearls Before Swine is indeed excellent. And ballsy. I doubt there’s another newspaper comic that would do a week of copyright infringement and terrorist jokes like when Pastis did ‘Osama hides out in The Family Circus’.

And I don’t think Kurtz is a hypocrite. At least he’s still delivering a punchline daily.

Where’s the laughs? « Damn Good Comics said on January 28th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

[…] under: Webcomic Discussion — mrmyth @ 6:37 pm So, I was somewhat startled by a post over at MightyGodKing wherein he calls PvP to task for the hypocrisy of indulging in a drama-laden storyline after […]

Dude said on January 28th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

“Woman, when I get home you better be naked and holding my dinner!”

Ya that is totally a drama-laden storyline right there.

achewoodfan said on January 28th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

PS Funkula –

Kurtz has gone on record saying he likes Achewood, i think you misunderstood what he said before.

Baltch said on January 29th, 2008 at 1:19 am

From what I understand Kurtz’s numbers are bigger than ever, which means everything to a webcomic, so while some of you may not care for it he’s doing fine and it seems like his attempts to broaden his comic thus broaden his readership are working. Your welcome to think what you want but from what I see are people hounding the guy for trying something new, me I’m a fan.

JupiStrahan said on January 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

Found PvP a few years back, liked it then, love it now. I agree with Salmo above; even if it’s regarding a more serious topic, at least Kurtz delivers a punchline, unlike so ‘For Better or for Worse” and many others. And in the event that it actually has no punchline (talking theoretically, since I can’t recall a PvP strip without one) I can rest assured that the next day’s or previous day’s strip would have a laugh.

Also, I’m all for Brent’s current mouth. No one should have to go through life with a mutated Verti-Mouth! Though I will say I miss Francis’s old hair. He doesn’t look dorky enough. How am I supposed to relate!?

Rebekah J. said on January 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Okay, may I just say that this is the first serious story line in a long while. The whole engagment one was a hilarious fiasco, and really I find it funny how this plot is following on the heels of SHECKY, Skulls responsibility-allergic relative, getting kinda-engaged. Plus, those people who are accusing Kurtz of hypocrisy?

1. How long ago was the top strip made? People are allowed to change their minds, aren’t they?
2. It was a joke, as in, Ha ha. Not to be taken seriously or held up as proof as the cartoonists actual thoughts. I love those comics he made fun of but I laughed like a loon when I read that strip. People, lighten up. Isn’t that what funnies are all about?
3. Guys, comic art changes. Look at any webcomic from beginning to end and it changes. It will change some more. But this is a good thing. Anyone remember what Francis used to look like?

Pyroja said on January 29th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

If you want to bash a webcomic for deteriorating into suckage, one need not look any further than MegaTokyo.

To try to say PvP is hypocritical is at best a stretch and at worst an outright lie.

Kurtz has his reasons for what he’s doing and it should be fairly obvious. As usual, he’s providing a fine story arc presented across several strips while still providing a laugh with every strip. (I haven’t laughed at anything in MT for a looooooong time…) Arguing over his artistic decisions is silly, as every artist evolves his/her technique (MacHall/3PS? RealLife? MT? None of them look like they did in the beginning…).

Ya either like it or ya don’t, but don’t get all riled up and try to bash it for being something it’s not. Don’t get worked up because the comic isn’t a constant and “pure” stream of gamer and nerd jokes. If you’re still stuck in that mindset TEN YEARS LATER, there’s some issues there. PvP is more than that just as any person should be more than that.

Chill out. PvP has been true to itself through it all. Definitely more than I can say about some other webcomics…

Just Laura said on January 29th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

I’ve read PVP for years now, and my only complaint really is the poor grammar and the occasional spelling error. And before someone jumps on me about how “this is just a comic” and “don’t get all Nazi with the English,” I don’t recall having the same complaint with Calvin & Hobbes (a true classic), FBorFW, or Pearls Before Swine (another excellent strip).
Just my 2 unwanted cents.

The Imp said on January 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

“Am i the only one who still likes PvP? it still makes me laugh a lot, and its one of the highlights of the day. i mean, yes, you all can bitch about it, but i find it funny. and you’ve got to have better insults than the fact that he draws the comic differently now. its like bitching at jim davis for drawing garfield differently than he did when he first started writing it.

so screw you, ex-fanboys, go get out of your parent’s basement.”

John:
I don’t actually care about Kurtz’ art, or where Brent’s mouth is. I just don’t find it funny. It could be said that we simply have different senses of humour. It looks like we also have different senses of indignation, if you read “I stopped reading PvP… I’m glad I didn’t miss anything” as “Clearly Kurtz is the worst artist in the world, and his comic is shit, and people who read it are shit.

I only meant that I didn’t like it. Nothing more, though I could understand current fanboys seeing it as an insult to the “highlights of the day”.

Raven Despret said on January 29th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

PvP is an excellent strip. I’ve just started reading it about 3 months ago, and I started from the first comic and read forward. Yeah, there were lots of strips that just were like “Meh” and many others that were freaking hilarious. But all of it is real life humor. That’s the simple brilliance of the strip.

Yeah, there is lots of “hypocrisies” but that’s how things work.

Oh, and to state the blatant. He does say that Newspaper comics tend to be way to serious. But when he turns away from the one-day straight punch joke into a story arc, he still makes it funny. It may not be the outlandish humor or may take a strip or two, but how things end is normally worth the 3-6 days and strips.

And I laugh at those who say it’s not good anymore, or the other excuses for not reading it anymore. Simply because you think it “sucks” now, or isn’t funny. Well if you go to PvP’s site and hit “First Comic” then hit the back button on you browser, you’ll see that… No crap it’s different, it’s more sophisticated. It’s the perfect ploy, implied subtle humor, and a straight forward fart joke. It touches all bases. Sure there are people who won’t like it. But then again… quite a few people hated X-men.

~Raven~

Dillvish said on January 30th, 2008 at 12:26 am

Here’s the thing: All of you who are bashing PvP? Just stop reading it. Kurtz doesn’t owe you anything, right? It’s a big world out there and you can find something you like. If any of you were qualified for deep, meaningful comic criticism, but this is just flamage for the sake of flamage.

Amethyst Precursor » Post Topic » Way too serious… said on January 30th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

[…] Kurtz has been lately, and how blah this and blah that, and waaaah. The two most relevant are this and this, posted in the authors blog on the PVP […]

Misfit119 said on February 1st, 2008 at 5:19 pm

Kurtz’s only problem is he is an arrogant @$$ due to him having a successful web comic. I don’t find PvP funny anymore by and large but since I get a chuckle every so often I still read it. And just because something is big and popular doesn’t make it “good.” People care about what Paris Hilton does but that doesn’t change the fact that the girl is dirtier than a landfill. If you don’t like the comic or not, it matters little. His numbers make one, ten or a hundred people irrelevant. Just ignore it.

smurfwreck said on February 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

I’d like to preface this by saying that I’m all in favor of critisism when it’s constructive, but um…let me get this straight. Guy writes and draws a comic with a statment on a topic. Then years later he finds himself making the same kinds of strips that he used to poke fun at. Why in the hell are people bitching about that? So Kurtz can’t change? Because he posted an idea 4 years ago he’s locked into that for the rest of his life?

That’s like bitching at the Beatles because they grew out of their “I wanna hold your hand…” pop stuff to more expeimental White album stuff.

Stupid Beatles, I only want pop, damn you!

If people are going to be taken to task because of stuff they say years ago, then everyone is going to look like a hypocrite.

As far as people taking the time to post that they’re glad they stopped reading, well I think it’s a little silly that they’re taking the time to read other websites knocking on the strip, that’s like dumping someone and then going back to where they work periodically to check up on them.

Well, That Didn’t Take Long

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